Enchanter floor

[LAAllison]

As I was removing the gas tank in my newly aquired 86 Enchanter I found some soft spots. Pulled everything out of the interior and pulled back the carpet to find some wet rotted floor. I've cut out the glass overlay and outlined the floor area that needs to be replaced. Not difficult, just nasty.
Question is. What resin do I use, polyester or epoxy? I've seen repairs that didn't bond to the old material and don't want to do this but once.
Thanks


Art


If it's slow it must be an OMC

[jallen355]

I am nearing the completion of replacing the stringers and floor in my Exciter. I used polyester resin as I was told that is what Checkmate had used in the construction. I think adequate grinding is the key to proper adhesion.

BTW, I used all "coosa board" for the stringers and floor. It's a fiberglass reinforced polyurethane foam board that comes in 4'x8' sheets in 1/2" and 3/4" thicknesses. I used 1/2" for the floor with a single layer of 1.5 oz mat on the bottemside and a double layer on the topside of the floor. This stuff will never rot and is alot lighter than plywood. Look it up on the web. It's made by a company right there in Alabama.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/jallen355/Boating/Floortopside004.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a117/jallen355/Boating/Floortopside024.jpg

[Enticer1]

Art, remember you can repair polyester with epoxy but not vice versa. Adhesion is all about prep work but keep in mind that epoxy is more than double the strength of polyester. Other than the price difference its a no-brainer to go with epoxy but also remember that your Mate was built with polyester and its still here. I have found that epoxy is much more user friendly than polyester but I have had good results with both. Either way if you prep the repair correctly it will be sound for probably longer than you will own you Mate. Good Luck with your repair job.:surf:

[LAAllison]

Good stuff. jallen your job looks just like what I need to do. I'll check on the Coosa board. For the amount I need the $$$ difference between epoxy and polyester isn't an issue if I'll get a better job.

Thanks Guys


Art


If it's slow it must be an OMC

[LAAllison]

jallen, did you use Coosa board for your floor? Did you glass it in? On their web site they show some adhesives but don't say anything epoxy resin. I', thinking I can set it with 3M 5200 then use glass tape on the joint. If it were plywood I'd glass the whole sheet but it seems like I wouldn't need to glass the whole sheet. What do ya think? I'll do some more on line learning.
Thanks


Art



If it's slow it must be an OMC

[aaronmt]

Welcome to the board Art!!! maybe I can teach you a few things about checkmates in turn for your knowledge on the allisons. :thumb: Aaron

[jallen355]

Yes. I used coos for the floor and stringers. I did opt to completely glass in the sringers as you would if they had been plywood. This was after the had been glued down with 5200.

Same thing on the floor. I cut it to fit, put a layer of glass on the bottemside and then 5200'd it to the stringers after the glass had cured. Then I added two additional layers topside. All in the name of strengh.

I used 1/2" material. I suppose you could go with 3/4" and get away with resin coating it.

[LAAllison]

Okay, sounds good. I just ordered Cossa board, 5200 and Epoxy resin from Donovan. Marine. I'll let you know how it works out.


Art



If it's slow it must be an OMC

[jallen355]

I think I paid $116.00 for 4'x8'x1/2" coosa from Advanced plastics right here in town. Just to give you a price point. Donovan always seems high to me. Oh, I will use close to two full sheets by the time I'm finished.

Stringers (double w/3 bulks...two of which are double thick)
Floor panel
Floatation box closure panels
2) triple thick transom kness
2) battery trays
etc....

[LAAllison]

Donovan has no Coosa board in stock and I talked to the plant in Pelham and they told me they were 2 weeks out. So jallen, where did you buy yours. I may drive to La. I don't want to wait 2 weeks. Any chance you got a phone number?

Art



If it's slow it must be an OMC

[jallen355]

Advanced Plastics Going by memory on the #504-738-6035. Talk to Mike and tell him Jamie told you to call.

[Wide Open]

If it's slow it must be an OMC????

Oh I beg to differ LA!!! Just a little fun!

[jallen355]

Come on WO... You like 'dem Slo MC's??? Haven't you heard."...if'n it ain't black, take it back"???? :banana:

[LAAllison]

Hey jallen. I'll be in Metarie Wed to get the Coosa board. The boat is ready for it and I'm ready. This is the first year I haven't been on the water in Mar & April since I was 15 and that's a long time ago.


Art



If it's slow it must be an OMC.

[jallen355]

Cool! I suppose you spoke w/Mike? The "secretary" there is my neighbor, also. "Anna" is her name.

Haha!! They have my CC# on file. I send my parts runner by there to p/u resin/mat/cloth for me every week, lately. I get the product delivered and a bill in the mail. It's too frickin' easy.

btw, I may be over in Mobile Friday night/Saturday. Not sure yet, but I may be able to save you a longer drive.

[LAAllison]

Good thought jallen but I've got to be at St George Island friday night so I couldn't meet you to get the board. I'm taking tomorrow off and going to get my stuff and then play a little golf on the way back. BTW if your credit card is on file what about---never mind.


Art



If it's slow it must be an OMC.

[jallen355]

Ha!!! I'm calling them in the a.m. and telling them I cut it up....!!

[LAAllison]

Got my stuff. The folks at Advanced Plastic were great. Had me loaded on on the way in no time. Maybe two weeks to get the Enchanter back together, minus the new upholstery which looks like 3 or 4 weeks.
Jamie, thanks for the info and BTW Anna says for you to call her.

Art


If it's slow it must be an OMC.

[Old Hickory]

You fellas are inspiring me. Question....can you use the coosa board for transom replacement. I'm only about a week out from building up my transom. I have a supplier here in nashville for okume. Its alot less expensive than coosa and locally available. I had decided to use okume for the stringers; floor; transom and to patch several cut-outs. But if coosa were suitable, I'd consider it.

Hick

[jallen355]

Hick, Coosa board is a great choice for transom replacement. I got my info on coosa from T-Rex and Forkin' Crazy. These guys ain't no rookies. Forkin' used to work for a boat manufacturer building new race hulls and well, T-Rex has been around since the Santa Maria. Here's a link to one of their current projects.

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152313&highlight=coosa

T-Rex also just completed a Laser hull rebuild and incorporated coosa into it, too.

http://www.byuboyz.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21893

Coosa is easy to cut, easier to sand and shape and will not rot. I used all 1/2" in my project, but it is available in 3/4" which is what I suppose you would want for transom replacment. Doubled up would be 1-1/2".

[Old Hickory]

Hick, Coosa board is a great choice for transom replacement. I got my info on coosa from T-Rex and Forkin' Crazy. These guys ain't no rookies. Forkin' used to work for a boat manufacturer building new race hulls and well, T-Rex has been around since the Santa Maria. Here's a link to one of their current projects.

http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152313&highlight=coosa

T-Rex also just completed a Laser hull rebuild and incorporated coosa into it, too.

http://www.byuboyz.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21893

Coosa is easy to cut, easier to sand and shape and will not rot. I used all 1/2" in my project, but it is available in 3/4" which is what I suppose you would want for transom replacment. Doubled up would be 1-1/2".

jallen,

I'll check it out later today; cost may be an issue because I have alot of things to replace. I havn't actually priced okoume plywood in a while so cost comparison will be of the first order. I may find my stringers and transom may be best to go w/ coosa and replace the floor w/ okoume. thanks again:thumb:

Hick

[DRILLER]

HEY GUYS , LOOKS LIKE I LOGGED IN AT THE RIGHT TIME , I AM GETTING READY TO DO THE FLOOR AND THE ENGINE IN MY 86 ENCHANTER 21 , SHE SANK IN THE DRIVEWAY WHILE I HAVE BEEN CHASING THE OIL RIGS AROUND LAST TWO YEARS ,, AM GOING TO TRY THAT COOSABOARD,DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER WHO IT WAS BUILDING A RIDE PAD ON HIS BOAT A COUPLE YEARS BACK ,, I AM WONDERING HOW IT WORKED OUT?

[cmpulse170]

HEY GUYS , LOOKS LIKE I LOGGED IN AT THE RIGHT TIME , I AM GETTING READY TO DO THE FLOOR AND THE ENGINE IN MY 86 ENCHANTER 21 , SHE SANK IN THE DRIVEWAY WHILE I HAVE BEEN CHASING THE OIL RIGS AROUND LAST TWO YEARS ,, AM GOING TO TRY THAT COOSABOARD,DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER WHO IT WAS BUILDING A RIDE PAD ON HIS BOAT A COUPLE YEARS BACK ,, I AM WONDERING HOW IT WORKED OUT?

Driller,
175checkmate is the one with the pad, he's still working on the boat.
Here's the link:
http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3251

[DRILLER]

thank you cmpulse170, i guess looking at his hull i dont need that , mine is flat on the bottom six in wide bow waterline to stern , but it was good to see so i had an idea, of what a ridepad would look like on the mate, thanx again DRILLER

[Old Hickory]

So here is the skinny on cost difference here in nashville.

Coosa board

Bluewater-26 1/2" 4x8 sheet $183.36/ea
B-26 3/4" 4x8 sheet $195.52/ea
B-20 1/2" 4x8 sheet $129.28/ea

Douglas Fir

1/2" 4x8 $58.24
3/4" 4x8 $71.04

Meranti(mahogany)....okoume not available

3/4" 4x8 $77.44


So...Coosa is twice as expensive(150%) as plywood. I will probably need around 10 sheets in 1/2" and 3/4" combinations. That puts my board costs around $2000 w/ coosa vs $800 w/ ply. Plus, waste is an issue as well. You can see where I'm headed w/ this. Don't think I'll be jumping on the Coosa Train just yet....unless there is a less expensive alternative to coosa...say 50% more in cost. Cost vs benefit just doesn't add up.

However, that being said; I can see myself still using coosa strategically. ie: patching holes in the deck and dash and transom rebuild. Stringers and floor will probably still be made of ply. I just need to get over the cost.

Hick

[jallen355]

It seems to get harder to justify the more material you need, however keep in mind in is roughly 1/2 the weight of plywood and will NEVER ROT. So you say you won't keep the boat forever... What's a boat rebuilt with coosa board compared to wood. Just a little more to think about.

[Old Hickory]

It seems to get harder to justify the more material you need,

My thoughts exactly. I can see using coosa for smaller jobs. But this enforcer is a big job. I'll have at least 3 sheets for the floor; maybe 4. 1 1/2 to 2 sheets for the transom(I'm going w/ a 2 1/4" thickness). Stringers, transom knees, and deck rebuild/repair at least another 4 or 5 sheets. It adds up quick. As I noted previously I may go w/ coosa for the transom and use ply for the stringers, floor and deck repair. but I'm still not sure.

however keep in mind in is roughly 1/2 the weight of plywood and will NEVER ROT. So you say you won't keep the boat forever... What's a boat rebuilt with coosa board compared to wood. Just a little more to think about.

thats a good point as well. however, If our boats had been properly encapsulated w/ resin and glass; it is likely we would not be doing this level of repair. If I remember correctly; Ebbtide and Colbalt do not appear to have this level of deterioration w/ their floors; stringers and transoms and they did and still use encapsulated ply. Properly encapsulated ply should last 30-40 years or longer if properly maintained. Coosa has only been mfg for 10 years(their own words). They may not rot; but they can still delaminate. Water can still play havoc w/ glass and foam if not installed and cared for properly.

Here's the deal. I figure If I install my ply properly and go the extra mile by fully encapsulating it; the repairs should last a lifetime. A big cost vs benefit for ply.

My biggest concern is the transom. By placing a transom extension on the back I can see some true benefit to using coosa. Its lighter; as strong and more rot resistant as marine ply. W/ the stresses that dual engines will place on the transom; I can see where a lighter and stronger rebuild will have some advantages. All this is still intangible because Coosa dosn't yet have a lengthy track record. So I'm back to cost vs benefit.

I know what ply can do if done PROPERLY. I'm still uncertain of Coosa's long term advantages. I'm open:thumb: But I'll need hard data to convince me.

Hick

[jallen355]

Just read you blog. You cut that transom out yet??

I'm all but done with the fiberglass work on mine. I'll be mixing some coloring agent in my final coat of resin this evening to baste my bildge area/battery trays in. Going to mix a light shade of grey.

[Old Hickory]

Just read you blog. You cut that transom out yet??

I'm all but done with the fiberglass work on mine. I'll be mixing some coloring agent in my final coat of resin this evening to baste my bildge area/battery trays in. Going to mix a light shade of grey.

Almost. I have transom knees and most of the inside glass removed. I'm guessing I have approximately 30%-35% of the wood removed on the transom itself. I have about a weekends worth of work to get it all taken out, ground and sanded. Then on to building it back. I'm hoping to post the removal on my blog in the next 2 weeks. I have a lot of pics.:)

Hick

[jallen355]

Got my stuff. The folks at Advanced Plastic were great. Had me loaded on on the way in no time. Maybe two weeks to get the Enchanter back together, minus the new upholstery which looks like 3 or 4 weeks.
Jamie, thanks for the info and BTW Anna says for you to call her.

Art


If it's slow it must be an OMC.

So how about an update, Art!! Hope you didn't choke to death on fiberglass dust!! How do you like to coosa board so far??

[LAAllison]

I just got side tracked by weddings, son transfering, etc etc and then found more wet wood in the very bottom. I've finally got it all cleaned up and my pieces cut and prefit so it won't take long to get the floor together. One piece made the floor from the dash to the transom and left plenty of pieces for the knee braces. The second sheet I'm going to use in place of the balsa wood that was in the bottom. BTW Old Hickory is right that PROPERLY used plywood should last many years. What I've found (this is my 5th floor/transom job) is that most problems are caused by improper rigging. For instance on my Enchanter the transducer mounted on the outside of the transom had a 1/4" hole drilled through the transom for the cable to pass through and was sealed (not) with silicone. The battery box was screwed to the floor and no sealant used on them, same thing for the oil tank. Silicone is great for somethings but not these things. Bottom line is that water got into the wood and a slow painful death occured. These were done by riggers but the seat base being screwed to the floor may have been factory, not sure.
One thing for sure, when I'm finished there won't be any screws that can cause a problem.
Got to go to Ft Stewart Ga to help my son this weekend but hope to have it back together by the end of May.


Art



If it's slow it must be an OMC.