Does a BAJA mold make a good CHECKMATE

[checkmate fan]

There are rumors out that BAJADOUG is trying to buy some of the molds from Reggie Fountain. Would a Baja Outlaw mold make a good checkmate? And while we are at it, why is his site name BAJADOUG when he owns Checkmate?

Enquiring minds want to know.


Let's hear it, true checkamte fans.:bounce::bounce::bounce::lol::lol::poke::poke :

[Craig]

I hope that is NOT true. I really, really dislike the outlaws especially the 25OL. They are heavy, slow, slugs. They truly SUCK as a performance boat, they stick to the water. The 25OL weighs in at around 4800lbs, that's 800lbs more then a 259/279 Convincor. It would be a bad idea, the 25OL just isn't a good speed boat....You got to throw more than 500hp in them and you'll still have a hard time reaching 70mph.

Someone please tell me there won't soon be outlaws out there with checkmate stickers on the side. I would not be able to deal with that. Please, I need to here that this is only a nasty rumor! Not sure what they'll gain as far as customers by doing this, maybe some, but they'll lose me and I'm sure alot of other current customers just for the principle of the matter.

-Craig

[onthehammer]

If it is for the larger hulls and a new Checkmate deck was molded for it, I think it would be ok. We need to get into the large boats to get some customers back on board. Remember the boat would be built to Checkmate standards and not Baja standards. Old hull and new deck would be ok. If it still looked like a Baja all around, NO!

[Craig]

Ah, all I know is the OL hulls SUCK. They are everywhere around here, been in lots of them. Slow….25’, 26’, 33’, 36’ whatever size. Will they be better if Checkmate takes them and lightens them up? Don’t know. I would bet not, they are totally different then a Checkmate hull, wide at the bottom and heavy at all the wrong spots.

Why not design their own “big” hull? Take what they got (25’-33’ ZT’s/Convincors) and stretch em if they want bigger. I’m no hull design expert, all I know is the 25’-33’ Checkmates have always spanked the 25’-33’ Bajas with same power….easily, forever, as long as I can remember. If this is truly in the works, somebody please explain to me. Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, man.

-Craig

[teamhart2]

Im not sure craig, but Ive always heard the weight difference is one of the biggest contributors to the speed differences you see between the checkmates and bajas, which mostly comes from construction methods I think.

Also, BajaDoug probably comes from the fact that he also started baja if my mind serves me right, some expert here will be able to confirm or deny that.

if its true who knows, maybe they just want to make sure no one else buys the molds and starts up another competitor or something. Or maybe they wanna use em to help design something new and use that as a basis..... or maybe they want an example at the factory of what not to build :poke: haha

[Craig]

Im not sure craig, but Ive always heard the weight difference is one of the biggest contributors to the speed differences you see between the checkmates and bajas, which mostly comes from construction methods I think.

Also, BajaDoug probably comes from the fact that he also started baja if my mind serves me right, some expert here will be able to confirm or deny that.

if its true who knows, maybe they just want to make sure no one else buys the molds and starts up another competitor or something. Or maybe they wanna use em to help design something new and use that as a basis..... or maybe they want an example at the factory of what not to build :poke: haha

Re: Weight - When you look at them side by side, more going on there than just weight difference.

Re: Bajadoug handle - I don't get that either.

Re: Buying the molds to reduce competition....I thought of that too. That would make sense.

-Craig

[Big Red]

If it is for the larger hulls and a new Checkmate deck was molded for it, I think it would be ok. We need to get into the large boats to get some customers back on board. Remember the boat would be built to Checkmate standards and not Baja standards. Old hull and new deck would be ok. If it still looked like a Baja all around, NO!

I don't think Checkmate needs to go any bigger in size. I think they need to say in the lake not the ocean. Just think about it, if you had the cash to buy a 36 footer would it say Checkmate or Baja. $ell no it would say Apache, Outerlimits, Skater or even Cig. Not Checkmate or Baja Hammer Slammer. Maybe "BajaDoug" aka Doug Smith is going to buy all the old Baja molds and have a big bon-fire at the Checkmate poker run. I will donate the 5 gallons of gas and 1 new zippo to get it started.

This is the way I feel I hate a Baja and would go boats-less if thats all I had.

[Chris]

I would love to have an Apache! :)

http://www.apacheboatco.com

[cooperider]

I would love to have an Apache! :)

http://www.apacheboatco.comAn Apache like that?

http://www.apacheboatco.com/images/tn_Apache%20Picture.jpg

Because thats what I see on that link.

[Chris]

Yeah, that's the one!

Apache! :thumb:

I want the fully loaded one with only Michelins on it!

Think about it Coop - you and I could go into the salvage business!

I could live out my dream of following in the footsteps of Nick Adonidas! :D

(That's probably a joke that only my fellow crazy Kanooks will get.) ;)

[cooperider]

Yeah, that's the one!

Apache! :thumb:

I want the fully loaded one with only Michelins on it!

Think about it Coop - you and I could go into the salvage business!

I could live out my dream of following in the footsteps of Nick Adonidas! :D

(That's probably a joke that only my fellow crazy Kanooks will get.) ;)


I'm in, IF we can name it Salvage One, like in that old Andy Griffith TV show, where he built a rocket in his junk yard.

[Craig]

I don't think Checkmate needs to go any bigger in size. I think they need to say in the lake not the ocean. Just think about it, if you had the cash to buy a 36 footer would it say Checkmate or Baja. $ell no it would say Apache, Outerlimits, Skater or even Cig. Not Checkmate or Baja Hammer Slammer. Maybe "BajaDoug" aka Doug Smith is going to buy all the old Baja molds and have a big bon-fire at the Checkmate poker run. I will donate the 5 gallons of gas and 1 new zippo to get it started.

This is the way I feel I hate a Baja and would go boats-less if thats all I had.

Well Big Red, I think I know what you're saying.......but if I, personally had the money and was in the market for a 36'+ boat, I sure would buy a Checkmate, considering it's still made with the traditional Checkmate quality construction (and doesn't have a baja bottom on it). I believe that Checkmate makes one of the best v-hull boats on the market. I'm not saying they are better than the boats you mentioned, but Checkmate construction holds it's own in comparison.....Thing is, you are right though, most of the rich guys with the gold chains, are going to buy the boats you listed, whether Checkmate is comparable or not, just so they can be in style and conform with the expectations of the wealthy class of boaters. But, yeah, Checkmate should stay with the outboard and small I/O's up thru the 27-28'ers, every once and a while build a 30...there isn't room for Checkmate on the list of boats you mentioned.

-Craig

[BAJADOUG]

OK GUYS THE BAJADOUG NAME HAS BEEN WITH ME FOREVER, SO COME UP WITH A NEW HANDLE AND I'LL MAKE THE CHANGE.
THERE IS NO TRUTH ABOUT BAJA MOLDS, WE HAVE NONE OF THE MOLDS AND FROM MY UNDERSTANDING THEY HAVE BEEN SENT TO THE LAND FILL.
I HAVE SPOKE WITH REGGIE ABOUT BUILDING SOME OF THE SMALLER BOATS FOR HIM AND THEY WOULD BE THEIR BOATS.

SO THERE IT IS FROM THE HORSES MOUTH.

THE PLANT WILL BE HAVING AN OPEN HOUSE AUG. 1ST ANF ALL ARE INVITED, FOLLOWED BY A POKER RUN ON SAT.

[Old Navy]

"CHECKMATEDOUG"

[Craig]

Building some boats for them…now that is awesome!

Well, no truth to the rumor, that’s good….we needed something to ramble about though, was getting kind of boring around here.

-Craig

[Craig]

I want to just say that some of the comments I made in this thread, were made without thinking about Doug Smith as the former pres of Baja. I did not intend to throw any insults at Doug or his former boat company, especially if he had any hand in the outlaw design. They are a nice enough boat and many of them have been sold over the years….I just don’t think the outlaw series run as well as the same size Checkmates. I have always thought of Baja as decent, solid boat. I am just a Checkmate guy at heart.

I have a lot of respect for what Doug Smith has done during his career in the boating industry and hope to see more good things now that he runs Checkmate. I am a recent customer and he has done a good job taking care of me.

-Craig

[Chris]

OK GUYS THE BAJADOUG NAME HAS BEEN WITH ME FOREVER, SO COME UP WITH A NEW HANDLE AND I'LL MAKE THE CHANGE.
THERE IS NO TRUTH ABOUT BAJA MOLDS, WE HAVE NONE OF THE MOLDS AND FROM MY UNDERSTANDING THEY HAVE BEEN SENT TO THE LAND FILL.
I HAVE SPOKE WITH REGGIE ABOUT BUILDING SOME OF THE SMALLER BOATS FOR HIM AND THEY WOULD BE THEIR BOATS.

SO THERE IT IS FROM THE HORSES MOUTH.

THE PLANT WILL BE HAVING AN OPEN HOUSE AUG. 1ST ANF ALL ARE INVITED, FOLLOWED BY A POKER RUN ON SAT.How about just using your real name? I think that would be best as that allows infrequent visitors to the site to identify you and know that you're the real deal.

As I have previously mentioned to you, I/we would like to work with you and the management group more co-operatively, as I believe that only stands to benefit all the stakeholders of the site. Those being, Checkmate Inc. and it's dealers, our membership and vendors, and the site and myself.

Or we can continue down the current road which I would currently characterize as "you do your thing and we'll do ours".

Sincerely,


-Chris Wilton

[Big Red]

[quote=Craig;442534]Well Big Red, I think I know what you're saying.......but if I, personally had the money and was in the market for a 36'+ boat, I sure would buy a Checkmate, considering it's still made with the traditional Checkmate quality construction (and doesn't have a baja bottom on it).

I would not buy one I would want to buy a boat that has been hammered on time and time again in the ocean. That way I know it will hold up. If Checkmate decides to build a big poker run style it will have to be tried for years in the rough seas to get profected. I would not want to be the test clown for a 36 + footer. Plus for the resale reasons not many people want a odd ball boat. Think a bit harder how many 30 foot Convincors are out their in demand not many. Thats because you open the doors to a larger boat market in that price range. Just look a the price they slapped on their latest project with the twin outboards.

[hotdaddy27]

Nice to hear an answer to some rumors from the horses mouth...

You wouldn't believe the questions I have been asked about Checkmate since aquiring my new one...I think people just make stuff up to sound cool!

As for Baja's...my Dad would puke if he heard me say this, but I have always had a soft spot for them.

Needless to say, my Checkmate will "out-look" any Baja I have ever seen and I will "hammer down" on any one I ever do SEE":eyecrazy:

Its kinda like football...I love the G-MEN, but I respect the competition that the Patriots provide. But in a heated debate, the gloves come off.

[Craig]

[quote=Craig;442534]Well Big Red, I think I know what you're saying.......but if I, personally had the money and was in the market for a 36'+ boat, I sure would buy a Checkmate, considering it's still made with the traditional Checkmate quality construction (and doesn't have a baja bottom on it).

I would not buy one I would want to buy a boat that has been hammered on time and time again in the ocean. That way I know it will hold up. If Checkmate decides to build a big poker run style it will have to be tried for years in the rough seas to get profected. I would not want to be the test clown for a 36 + footer. Plus for the resale reasons not many people want a odd ball boat. Think a bit harder how many 30 foot Convincors are out their in demand not many. Thats because you open the doors to a larger boat market in that price range. Just look a the price they slapped on their latest project with the twin outboards.

Well, all I can tell you is that years and years of "hammering down" has gone into the design of the current big Checkmates. Been around longer than most, in big water, and in the race circuit where the proved they will hold up.

I agree with your resale statement, and the fact that they would have a hard time fitting in to the list of manufacturers you listed. And yes the demand is low for the bigger Checkmates becuase there are so many others out there with a reputation for bigger boats, and the fact that 30' is actually small nowdays.

-Craig

[teamhart2]

one things for sure, BajaDoug runs one hell of a tight ship over there in Ohio, Havent had much chance to deal with the factory, but when I ordered the rubrail, it was nothing but a positive experience. Mike was on the phone and Linda, I think, took my order and handled everything for me, even called me right back when she got ahold of Mike. Super friendly and the shipping was fast too!

Thats the kind of thing that leaves a sweet taste in your mouth.... so when I get all growed up and have enough money to buy a new boat..... guess what itll be.:surf:

[cooperider]

My favorite Baja's the 220 Sport, and the 20 Outlaw. Sorry guys, my relatives and neighbors help build these boats.

But if things go right, and it doesn't sell for his asking price on ebay. Then I just may be the proud owner of one kick ass Baja.

All I really know about it is it was Fred Millers from Baja, and I grew up next door to this boat, and lusted after it for years. And she's still all original.

BAJADOUG, could you give me a little more background on this boat please.


http://realityboatcompany.photosite.com/~photos/tn/5210_1024.ts1130285766820.jpg


http://realityboatcompany.photosite.com/~photos/tn/5209_1024.ts1130285765429.jpg

[haftoo55]

Coop I think that might be the boat he had in 1975. That was 33 years ago. If thats it I didn't know it was still around. Alan

[Big Red]

I will start this post off with I do like the older Baja's I would not own one but I do like the way they look and seem to be built better.

This is the way I feel and I do not care who's corn flakes I piss in. You know where I am located.

I will say it again I will go boatless if a Baja is the only thing I could go to the lake in.

Baja flooded the market with their cheap look-o-like Cigarette boat. But that is what the low budget boater wanted the look without spending the coin. Baja sold a crap load of boats that realed in the bling bling boater that had no coin to back it up. Then after all said and done when he realized he could not afford it he lost his $ss on resale because the market was flooded with the bling bling Baja boat.

I am not knocking you Doug Smith or anybody else its all about money in the long run anyway. I might be a redneck but I am not stupid I know a horses $ss when I smell one. Hay man its life,, like i always say their is a $ss for every seat you just need to find the right sucker to sit in it.

I just know Baja played the market hard with their boats and hit the demands of the buget HP boater. I just don't want to see Checkmate take the same path. But that is not up to me its all in your hands now Doug.

And one more thing Doug I would like to know whats the deal with your new dealer up here in NC. I think he talks the talk but can't walk the walk. Don't get pissed at me I do more advertising on lake Norman than he does with Checkmate plastered on the side of my Convincor.

Cheer's Big Guy
from someone thats not scared to tell the truth and thats not ashamed of his habits. Because when we are all six feet under we all are equal.

[Big Red]

one things for sure, BajaDoug runs one hell of a tight ship over there in Ohio, Havent had much chance to deal with the factory, but when I ordered the rubrail, it was nothing but a positive experience. Mike was on the phone and Linda, I think, took my order and handled everything for me, even called me right back when she got ahold of Mike. Super friendly and the shipping was fast too!

Thats the kind of thing that leaves a sweet taste in your mouth.... so when I get all growed up and have enough money to buy a new boat..... guess what itll be.:surf:


I got my parts fast and prompt before Doug was their also. I never had any bad dealings with the factory.

[remlinger]

[quote=Craig;442534]Well Big Red, I think I know what you're saying.......but if I, personally had the money and was in the market for a 36'+ boat, I sure would buy a Checkmate, considering it's still made with the traditional Checkmate quality construction (and doesn't have a baja bottom on it).

I would not buy one I would want to buy a boat that has been hammered on time and time again in the ocean. That way I know it will hold up. If Checkmate decides to build a big poker run style it will have to be tried for years in the rough seas to get profected. I would not want to be the test clown for a 36 + footer. Plus for the resale reasons not many people want a odd ball boat. Think a bit harder how many 30 foot Convincors are out their in demand not many. Thats because you open the doors to a larger boat market in that price range. Just look a the price they slapped on their latest project with the twin outboards.

Best way to test the durability is to throw a few in the Race circuit. A couple of wins and hell of a lot of beating on the seas will proves itself fast.

[remlinger]

How about just using your real name? I think that would be best as that allows infrequent visitors to the site to identify you and know that you're the real deal.

-Chris Wilton

That is one of the best suggestion I've heard so far. Amazing on how much credability is gained by placing your name behind it. Not to mention I realy never know who Bajadoug was until reading this post.

[remlinger]

Coop, the posted pic's of the Baja to me looks like the haul is based on an old Checkmate mold with a different deck configuation, especially the noted step down in the burgundy color band at the ass end.

[haftoo55]

I 'm not sure but I think that was a 15' boat. And I do believe it might have been one of the molds that was bought from CHK. We have a pond at my Dads house and we used to play around in one of their messed up hulls.

[hac]

I've been thinking about a jump to a 30 footer in the next year or so. I like my Convincor now so I figured Checkmate was a given. Not too sure though now.
At that price range and size there are many players. I'm going to watch what unfolds for a while.
I avoided Baja last time. They are all over the lake! Good marketing!

[smallblockford]

well guys it would be hard to drop the handle doug did good things with baja in the day.

and coop i am sorry about all your neighbors, they lost there jobs they got moved else were guys

doug is in the trenchs with the some of you guys but he runs a good ship. baja became a major player because of him. if molds were bought and hand laid not mass produced it could be good.

how many molds have really been passed around if only you really knew.

as for the baja doug, tell me if you made the company would you not be proud to be still holding that handle you watched your company come up and grow into one of the most major players in the performance business and please think about it i know i would be proud baja had some great years although i dont like there hulls right know i think i would try to supe up a sea ray first, lol. there would not be chevy without ford.

guys some of the molds that skater built went to other boat companys
enjoy the show:popcorn:

[SCT]

Skater/ Baja molds.

[cooperider]

Ok, here's the poop on the Baja mold thing. There will be no Baja molds making there way into the Checkmate plant. Sea Ray exec's made damn sure that any molds that Reg didn't take got crushed. Especialy the Skater/Baja mold that a new company Faction Powerboats wanted to use. (pictures of the crushed Skater mold are on OSO)

[TEAMBAJA]

Ok, here's the poop on the Baja mold thing. There will be no Baja molds making there way into the Checkmate plant. Sea Ray exec's made damn sure that any molds that Reg didn't take got crushed. Especialy the Skater/Baja mold that a new company Faction Powerboats wanted to use. (pictures of the crushed Skater mold are on OSO)

I knew I should have pulled that thing over to your house! Would have been a cool swimming pool!

[ross]

wow! kind of a ballzy screen name.....:(

[Big Red]

I think we are going to have to burn this thread. We need to start it over. Does Fountain make a good Baja mold. I don't know if its true but a guy told me Monday that Reggie does not own Fountain, Mercury marine does. Any truth to this ???

[smallblockford]

I think we are going to have to burn this thread. We need to start it over. Does Fountain make a good Baja mold. I don't know if its true but a guy told me Monday that Reggie does not own Fountain, Mercury marine does. Any truth to this ???
gee i wonder if they want to forget about some boats breaking, hum that would be a wonderfull way

there is word that reggie isnt going to own it much longer

i thought the same thing he paid brunswick up but i heard they are taking him back over

no matter what it is a shame to see it happen couldnt find a better boat to pass in a checkmate

[hac]

I've heard the same thing about Mercury marine. And they somehow give Fountain rights to build??

[JUPITER PULSARE]

mmmm.....so much controversy.....and confusion.....From a historical point of view, I think it would be a shame for Checkmate to "splash" someone else's boat. I'm glad to hear that Doug Smith has put those rumors to rest. If there are any new Checkmates designed, they should be designed by the Checkmate Team and toolers that have been with Checkmate for years. Maybe they can get a bit more up to date with modern bottom designs but the tooling should be inhouse, where it belongs. The new 24' Pulsares and BRX are gorgeous boats and shows that Checkmate can bring a new product out that is great! As far as "BajaDoug" goes.....maybe DougMate....CheckDoug...SmithMate....CheckSmith... .CheckSmithMate.....:D

[Blizz]

Brunswick corp does NOT own Fountain it is wholly owned by Fountainn Powerboats Inc. If Brunswick owned they would have just transferred Baha to NC as they owned Baha.

[PapaMaC]

As far as "BajaDoug" goes.....maybe DougMate....CheckDoug...SmithMate....CheckSmith... .CheckSmithMate.....:D

I think CMateDoug has a good ring to it :thumb:

[TEAMBAJA]

wow! kind of a ballzy screen name.....:(

I assume you were referring to me? :D

Ive used the same screen name for years. First boat was a Checkmate and Im sure I'll own another!

[Scott_Loveless]

Brunswick corp does NOT own Fountain it is wholly owned by Fountainn Powerboats Inc. If Brunswick owned they would have just transferred Baha to NC as they owned Baha.

Brunswick may not own " Baja by Fountain " but they loaned Reggie 100% of the $4 mil purchase price.

With in the agreement they made him sign off that he would use a lot more Merc engines / parts in the racing boats and require him to promote right on the race hulls powered by Merc.

Anybody see that the new Baja's won't have gel graphics - tape or paint, kinda like.... Bayliner :)