man i need realy help now !! [Archive] - Checkmate Community Forums

Bubba

09-14-2003, 02:34 PM

JUST RUN THE PULSARE FOR THE FIRST TIME,

I am not happy with it, just like JW told me the boat takes off very good ,but when i get too WOT the boat starts to scine like h$%&#, http://www.checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/zx11pissed.gif http://www.checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/zx11pissed.gif i don't like this at all please help me out with this problem wath can i do to stop this,man mij old starflite seems not hafe this problem

Sake From HOLLAND

Bubba

09-14-2003, 02:34 PM

Bill

09-14-2003, 04:06 PM

Raise the motor, where is the prop shaft in relation to the bottomof the boat? Prop shaft should not be any lower than 3 inches below the bottom of the boat, then raise it from there.

2003 ZT 240 6.2litre/Bravo 320 H.P. 24p Bravo 1

Bubba

09-14-2003, 04:41 PM

Bill, thanks i wil look @ it tomorrow, bill can you help me with this? wil the engine take enough water when i rise the engine up? and does the propellor take enough water to get on plane fast? and when i rise thge engine would the chine stop compleet? sorry for all the questions eny help is very welkom so please tel me more about this.

Sake From HOLLAND

Bill

09-14-2003, 06:44 PM

If you keep the prop shaft between 2.9 and 3.0 inches, then you will be okay on water pressure. I forget what type of prop you are running, but, that height is pretty neutral, meaning you should not have any problems with hole shot or prop slippage. It might help your hole shot by allowing to rpm's to rise abit quicker. You chine walking might not stop completly, but it will should be alot more manageable and get you through it. All this is of course hoping that is is what is causing the chine walking, but it would be the most likely cause. Other causes could be weight distribution being off or a hook in the bottom. You can check for a hook by taking a 4 foot straight edge and run it along the bottom of the boat in a couple of different spots either side of the motor. If you see more light through the straight edge on one side than the other towards the transom than that could be the cause. I would focus on the engine height first though... When you measure the height, make sure both the bottom of the boat and the prop shaft are in the horozontal position to be acurate. Good luck!
Bill

2003 ZT 240 6.2litre/Bravo 320 H.P. 24p Bravo 1

175checkmate

09-14-2003, 07:50 PM

Also what I would check is the motor mounts and is there play in the steering. If I remember you had this motor on your other boat so I would think your mounts are ok.
I would look at engine height. JW know the set up. I drove his all the way to 70+ It had to be the most stable boat I ever driven above 50mph. The differance between his boat and mine was like comparing a caddy to a bug, guess who has the bug.

http://www.checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/avatars/rooster_3.jpg

1975 Checkmate Tri-mate 2, 2.4 200+ / Sky jacker 6" plate / 25p Laser 2 prop

MrWick

09-14-2003, 09:37 PM

Won't just about any boat chine walk if you get a big enough motor on it,trim it up all the way and reach a certain speed.I had an 82 Diplomat with a 140hp evinrude a 83 Entertainer with a 2.6xp(235hp)and they both would chine walk with max trim at WOT.The Diplomat was around 60 and the Entertainer was up around 70.If your getting up over 70 before it chine walks maybe thats whats going to happen no matter what you check or do to the boat.I just backed the trim down a degree or two and they both settled right down...

Bill

09-14-2003, 10:14 PM

MrWick, alot of it has to do with balance of the boat, eliminating the chine walk means you have the boat balanced on the pad, if it has a pad. This can be done by getting the center of gravity low and as close to the center as possible. Chine walking can also be caused by a prop being too deap in the water. If the prop is too deap, combine the torque and the prop biteing too much and it wants to pull the boat over on the chine, which will cause the driver to steer against the way the boat lays over, bring the boat from chine to chine. It takes skill and experience to drive thru chine walk if set up can't eliminate it. It is about feeling through the steering wheel. If you have loose steering, you can't keep up with the chine walk and keep the boat on the pad. That is why is imprtant to have at the very minimum, dual cable steering, preferably hydraulic or hynautic steering to give you that extra feel and take the play ouy of the steering. more than likely you experienced the walk is because the more you trim, the more you have the baot out of the water and were not able to balance it. JW is veryknowledgeable on setting up a boat, combined with an already stable hull given the right set up, hence is "lazy boy" ride. I personally like to set the boat up with a small amount of chine walk to give me some excitement while I drive, kind of gives me something to do. Props can also cause a boat to lose stability. Even on my heavy hull, when I run a Mirage Plus 3 blade, I can get a litlle chine walk above 60, but with the Bravo 1, unless here is at least a 2 foot chop, the ride is soo stable it can be boring. SO yes, every boat may chine walk depending on driver and set up. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

2003 ZT 240 6.2litre/Bravo 320 H.P. 24p Bravo 1

F150GT

09-14-2003, 10:59 PM

Are you running the same prop from your starflight? How much of the running gaer did you switch from the old boat to the new hull?
I once ran three diffrent props back to back, and it was amazing how diffrently they all can perform. Luckey for me my prop ran the best, the others would chine walk like a @#%$ I had a 26 choper that was very fast but real unstable.
Did you run with your K Planes down at all at WOT? this could of helped stabilize the Starflight.

F150GT

Bubba

09-15-2003, 11:58 AM

first of al thank guys for helping me out with this problem,

I usde a 23 tempest plus on my old strarflite, with no chine walk at all, but the engine got to mutch RPM's so i bought me a 25 tempest plus
and trhee days later the pulsare.
so i dont know what the 25 tempest should hafe don on the starflite, i didn't try. Bill you scarde me with the bottum of the boat i hope that is not the problem. and no i don't hafe my k-planes on the pulsare yet i think de don't fit on the stern to less space. i hafe finde out about this.

Sake From HOLLAND

Craig

09-15-2003, 02:03 PM

Bubba,

A Pulsare will chine walk at 65 mph and over, even if set up properly. Proper set up is important, though for safety. Do what Bill said in his posts, but the main thing you need to do is learn to balance the boat. The worse thing you can do is hold the steering wheel still. Keep the boat guessing, don't let it "fall off the pad." Just takes some practice. Slight movements of the steering wheel to counter-act the "falling" of the hull is what every outboard driver at high speeds has to do in order to prevent chine walk. You'll get to a point where it will become second nature.

-Craig

Bubba

09-15-2003, 02:21 PM

craig, take a plane en get to holland and learn me how too steer the boat http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif,
ok serios now, craig please tel me can de boat flip over when i make a wrong move with the steering wheel? i got a sea star hydrolic steering.if you have more info about steering and keap the boat on the pad please tell me how to do that.

Sake From HOLLAND

Craig

09-15-2003, 06:01 PM

Bubba,

If you don't counteract the chine walk, and just hold the steering wheel still, YES, you could lose control of the boat.

It's hard to explain or describe.....You have to have a feel for the boat...You can tell when the boat is going to fall to the right, at that instant, you need to turn the wheel slightly to the left. What you're going to do is try and "teeter-totter" on the pad.

This will help:

1. Good steering with no "play" or "slop". Either dual cable or hydraulic.
2. Proper enigne height. Bill's advice was correct. Start at propshaft 3" below bad and go up from there to find "sweet spot" for best speed and rpms.
3. Check that all motor mounting and jack-plate mounting bolts are secure.
4. Weight distributed evenly in boat. (Not much you can do about yourself being on the right side, maybe put some extra weight on the passenger side while practicing.)

Be careful. Have someone around on shore while you're learning.

-Craig

Bill

09-15-2003, 07:15 PM

Craig is right about balanicing on the pad with steering, it will become second nature with time and practice. Counter steering chine walking is proactive rather then reactive. You need to stay ahead of the walk to balance it, as the boat list left, turn the wheel slightly right and vise versa. This is why you see high speed performance hulls with foot throotle and trim on the wheel to keep both hands on the wheel. That equipment is not necessary, just helps. WHen cruising about 45 or so, just turn the wheel back and forth ever so slightly to get the feeling of what to do and picture the feeling of the walk and doing that same movement to counteract it. It is all about feel... THe best thing you can do is go out by yourself and practice, practice , practice. If the boat starts to feel uncomfortable, back off and try again. The "feeling" normally takes some time to get.

2003 ZT 240 6.2litre/Bravo 320 H.P. 24p Bravo 1

09-16-2003, 09:31 PM

IF his Pulsare has the stock CMC jack plate in the stock location, then he can't lower the engine too far into the water to make it chine walk. It comes set up from the factory perfectly for the low to high adjustment travel on the CMC. 'Stock' set up is mounting the engine in the second hole from the top of the engine bracket to the jack plate.

Next, make darn sure your cables are tight. You must run dual cable, and you must tighten the 'forward' cable against the aft cable until there is ZERO play in the steering tubes. Tighten the forward cable end towards the port side of the boat. Grab the back of the engine and move it back and forth. See any play in the end of the tubes? Tighten more! You can tighten until the cables get too hard to turn, that's when you know you're just a little too tight!

You probably have rubber engine mounts, I had the advantage of a Promax motor with solid mounts. If you want no chine walk, then you'll have to switch to solid mounts. You have to pull the power head to access the top mounts.

Then like others said, try different props. I had a rebuilt once that caused a dangerous chine walk. You couldn't drive out of it. Put on a new prop, and no chine walk.

With a good prop, solid engine mounts, VERY tight dual cable steering, and the propshaft 3.5" to 2.5" below the pad, you won't have chine walk. The Pulsare hull is a superior handling hull. I sold mine to a guy that has never owned a boat before with confidence, because they are so safe and predictable.

Checkmates owned: 1995 Pulsare 2100BR/1995 Mercury Promax 225 2.5 EFI. 1995 Persuader 183/4.3 LX V6. 1992 Pulse 171/1992 Mercury XR6 150 hp 2.5 liter.

Bill

09-16-2003, 10:13 PM

JW,

Sake has stated he hung the motor and he has hydraulic steering............. I have driven Pulsares from straight from the factory with the 5.5 inch CMC that chine walked like crazy until the motor was raised to the right spot....

2003 ZT 240 6.2litre/Bravo 320 H.P. 24p Bravo 1

175checkmate

09-16-2003, 11:40 PM

Remember, props are everything. When I first got my mate it had a 28 cleaver, nasty prop, chinewalk and ill handling. Next was a 27 balistic 4 blade ( this was before I knew better). This made the boat handle worse. Could not drive it at WOT. Then I bolted on a laser 2. Different boat. WOT 69 mph with one hand. Oh what a differance a prop can make.

http://www.checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/avatars/rooster_3.jpg

1975 Checkmate Tri-mate 2, 2.4 200+ / Sky jacker 6" plate / 25p Laser 2 prop

09-17-2003, 10:50 AM

If there is hydraulic steering installed, then make sure the system is completely bled out. An air bubble also causes chine walking.

Checkmates owned: 1995 Pulsare 2100BR/1995 Mercury Promax 225 2.5 EFI. 1995 Persuader 183/4.3 LX V6. 1992 Pulse 171/1992 Mercury XR6 150 hp 2.5 liter.

Bubba

09-17-2003, 02:58 PM

Pffffff i tryed to get out of the chine, man that is not easy, just you guys told me, but i ll keap on trying, JW please can you tel me how to get air bubble of the steering?

Sake From HOLLAND

Bill

09-17-2003, 05:24 PM

Sake,

It will take lots of prctice! IT will come to you though! Did you get an owners manuel from the previous owner on the steering system? I have not had my hands on hydraulic steering for an outboard in a couple of years, but there should be a bleeder screw in the system, we used to open that screw and turn the wheel back and forth to work all of the air out making sure the resivior never went dry to add more air.

2003 ZT 240 6.2litre/Bravo 320 H.P. 24p Bravo 1

09-17-2003, 06:20 PM

Sake, the bleeder should be above your helm. There should be a hole cut in the top of your dash behind the steering wheel, if not then you'll have to climb underneath to find the bleeder on top of the helm. Once you find it, do like Bill said, run the steering back and forth many times to 'work' the air bubble up to the helm, where you can then add more fluid to replace the air.

Checkmates owned: 1995 Pulsare 2100BR/1995 Mercury Promax 225 2.5 EFI. 1995 Persuader 183/4.3 LX V6. 1992 Pulse 171/1992 Mercury XR6 150 hp 2.5 liter.

Craig

09-18-2003, 10:03 AM

JW,
A Pulsare DOES chine walk, but you have to be going fast enough. At speeds around 70, an experienced driver (you) may not notice it...It's a superior hull, but they ALL (v-bottoms) chine walk at a certain speed, they have to, they're not flat. Just depends on how much boat you got in the water.

This guy may have set up problems, and needs to take precautions, but most likely, just needs to get use to the boat.

-Craig

09-18-2003, 07:04 PM

We'll have to disagree on the 'a Pulsare does chine walk' then, because mine NEVER did. Only an improperly set up Pulsare will chine walk. I do admit, mine was fully optimized, but I also must admit that mine NEVER chine walked......I could hang on to the wheel and NOT do any steering corrections and it went straight down the lake, 1 foot of pad in the water (per the on-shore spectators) and it never moved.
Checkmates owned: 1995 Pulsare 2100BR/1995 Mercury Promax 225 2.5 EFI. 1995 Persuader 183/4.3 LX V6. 1992 Pulse 171/1992 Mercury XR6 150 hp 2.5 liter.

175checkmate

09-18-2003, 09:43 PM

I can speak for JW's boat. The set up is everything, this includes the prop. JW ran down the lake and back, I was rideing shotgun. He then jumps up shows me where the sweet spot is on the trim gauge and I was flying. Ran it up to WOT. This boat rocks. 70+ and was rock solid. Take your hands off the wheel solid. No steering input needed, trim and throttle still where the factory installed them. Mine on the other hand needed a hot foot and trim on the wheel, I have to drive mine, JW's drove its self.

http://www.checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/avatars/rooster_3.jpg

1975 Checkmate Tri-mate 2, 2.4 200+ / Sky jacker 6" plate / 25p Laser 2 prop

Craig

09-19-2003, 09:57 AM

I can't remember what speed they start to walk, maybe it's right around 70-75, I thought maybe 65, but I can't remember. So JW, I can sort of eat my words on this one, Pulsares GENERALLY don't walk, but if you bolt on more power and run them past their average speed, they will, even worse than a Stream, because their is so much more boat to balance. Pulsares are designed basically for skiing, a 200-225hp motor and low 70's mph speed. (My opinion)

All I can tell you is all v-pads chine walk when they get up to a certain speed. It's physics, they can't just balance there on their own, gravity and prop torque won't let em. A center steer boat is a little better, but will walk as well,

Right now, I can't notice any walk with mine because I've been driving it and other hi-speed outboards for so long. If I let a buddy take it out, they can't even run 3/4 throttle. I can guarantee you that my set-up is excellent (solid mounts on the 300, hydraulic steering, height, set-back, foot throttle, foot trim) and if someone takes it out who has little experience, they will not come close to it's top speed.

-Craig

09-19-2003, 01:25 PM

To be honest with everyone, I do not believe in hydraulic steering for hi-po boats. They haven't been designed (up till just now) to be as tight as a good heavy duty dual ride-guide system. Darius Allison would NOT install hydraulic steering on any of his boats. Just this summer, there's a brand new version of the SeaStar Pro that he is going to test, it may be up to the task. I don't know anyone with hydraulic steering (so far) on a V-pad that doesn't have chine walk problem. The hydraulics have just a little bit of slop at the motor that a super tight dual ride guide doesn't.

Checkmates owned: 1995 Pulsare 2100BR/1995 Mercury Promax 225 2.5 EFI. 1995 Persuader 183/4.3 LX V6. 1992 Pulse 171/1992 Mercury XR6 150 hp 2.5 liter.

Craig

09-19-2003, 01:56 PM

JW,
I really like the solidness of my hyd system. My Sea Star system is "tighter" than any dual cable system I've had or seen on other boats. Out on the river, standing at the beach, I look at others and compare, but they may not have their's as tight as yours. You seem to be very particular, and are one of the people whose opinions I value.

But, my preference is hydraulic on a high speed set-up with high propshaft settings. Cables break. I'm not really worried about hoses or fittings failing, because several years ago I busted a fitting (up agianst the splashwell by overtrimming.) Leaked fluid, and only became slightly spongy, still had steering control. So, I'm confident that if a fitting breaks or a hose breaks, I'll still have control of the boat. Break a cable and your in big trouble.

-Craig

Bubba

09-19-2003, 03:40 PM

101 people, and 101 differend opinion's (Thoughts), i like that whe all can learn from each other, keap on posting!

http://www.checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif

Sake From HOLLAND

F150GT

09-19-2003, 11:25 PM

JW & CRAIG
I agree with you both. My hydraulic steering is not as tight as good dual cable, but I feel I have better response due to the easier steering at full speed. Just my thoughts.

As for blowing a hose, I work in construction with hydraulics all the time, if you crack a fitting or develop a pin hole you will still have controll until you loose too much fluid. but if you break a fitting off, you will loose all controll simaler to breaking a cable.

I love dialing in a boat, its the chalange.
F150GT

CHECKMATE ZEUS

09-20-2003, 09:45 AM

YOU DONT LOSE ALL CONTROL WHEN YOU BREAK A CABLE. THATS WHY YOU HAVE DUAL CABLES. ONE CABLE BREAKS, YOU STILL HAVE BASIC CONTROL UNTIL YOU CAN GET THE BAD CABLE REPLACED

I am the one who knows all!

daren34

09-20-2003, 10:00 AM

try less trim out higher motor
my 16 diplomat with looper 140 chined so bad it was scarry put on the jack plate and it helped yuou could get it on the pad but it would roll down and then back up probablyu not enough seat time on my part

Bubba

09-21-2003, 03:39 PM

result of today,

this was a very nice after sommer day in holland, tolk the pulsare out today and had my frends with me.

4 big people
three of my kids 6 7 13 years old
25" tempest plus, full gas tank, cola, some beer, just loaded.
5600 RPM'S 70.6 on the GPS!!!!!! wow i like that.
thanks of al off you nearly no chine, i risde the engine with 2", mutch mutch better ride this time, now i hafe to take the power lift up the transom to get the last few inch.
yes i am going to the richt direction http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifThanks to all of you for your help

Sake From HOLLAND

Chris

09-21-2003, 03:46 PM

Good to hear Sake.

Sounds like JW had the right idea. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Webmaster
Checkmate-Boats.com-The Fanatics Home!

09-21-2003, 05:07 PM

Wow, 70+ mph with that load! Very good speed for a boat loaded down like that! You may still get some chine walk when you're out alone, as added weight stabilizes the hull and lessens the problems. Go back out alone now and tell us how she runs!

Checkmates owned: 1995 Pulsare 2100BR/1995 Mercury Promax 225 2.5 EFI. 1995 Persuader 183/4.3 LX V6. 1992 Pulse 171/1992 Mercury XR6 150 hp 2.5 liter.