View Full Version : A Star(liner) is (re)Born
About a year ago I saw a 1986 Starliner on the forum for sale. It was in Florida and I was in Canada, but I decided it was a rare enough find and good enough deal to go for it. Like many of you, I love the Starflight hull, but as a family man prefer the bowriders. I knew it was a project boat but I was still in for a surprise when I met the seller in Nashville. He had started the resto and decided to bail out after he had stripped the hull down. After I hauled the boat 24 hours home and went through the boxes of parts, I discovered it had no deck hardware, no lights, no rubrail, no bowrails, no gauges, no steering wheel, no wiring, no cooler latches, a broken windshield and a bunch of other missing parts. The floor and stringers were completely rotten(which I did know) but there were 13 holes drilled into the balsa core(wet) and 2 of them went clear through the hull and were plugged (sort of) with 1/4" bolts. (Can you spell Caveat Emptor?) The good news was that the rest of the hull, other than being oxidized was in perfect shape. "Light silver black" metal flake is what the factory calls it. This was going to be a big project, not just the labor, but finding all the correct parts to put it back together. If Chris is able to post the pics I'll give you the play by play.
wickedrister
10-13-2005, 11:27 PM
Love to see the pics of your project. Add one more Mate to the "saved from the bone yard" list! Good job Mark http://www.checkmate-boats.com/graemlins/thumb.gif
175checkmate
10-14-2005, 09:43 AM
Another mate saved. Very cool. It will be great to watch the restoration.
bdusted440
10-14-2005, 10:47 AM
It may not seem like it now but it is worth the effort.I'm happy I saved my ambasador.
Chris
10-15-2005, 01:25 PM
http://checkmate-boats.com/images/memberpics/Mark3.jpg
Chris
10-15-2005, 01:25 PM
http://checkmate-boats.com/images/memberpics/Mark4.jpg
BTW guys, I've actually already competed the project, so you aren't going to have to wait a year to see the end result. I will try to post the whole process over the next week or so. It took 10 months from start to finish and was way more work than I ever imagined. When a hull is stripped down this bare, it is an incredibly time consuming effort to get it back together, especially when you are missing parts.
In the first picture you can see that the floor(lying in foreground) is almost completely rotten. If you can get it out intact, you can use it as a template. This makes building the new floor much simpler. When you cut out the old one you just need to find the seams and cut 1/4" thru fiberglass and the rest will just lift out. You need to be very careful not to cut into the core or worse yet right thru. I used a spin saw. The blades don't last long in fiberglass thou.
Once I got the floor out, the foam was completely saturated with water and the whole area was crawling with cockroaches and other insects. This boat sat out side uncovered for years. That's what wreaks them. Checkmate used to staple the floors in and the water eventually finds its way through the staple holes(and other perforations) where it is trapped under the floor forever. Then it justs rots from the inside out. Chances are the stringers are going to be shot too if it has been wet too long.
If you look in the background of the second picture you can see I got the foam out intact. After about 6 months it dried out, but I just couldn't bring myself to put it back into a brand new floor. I thought, if it ever gets water under there again, at least I'll be able to hear it sloshing around and could drill a hole and just drain it out. The way I rebuilt it thou, it will never get water in it again. I'll cover that in a future post.
Rob'Z
10-15-2005, 11:34 PM
Glad to hear it is completed and you are enjoying the fruits of your labor now.
cooperider
10-16-2005, 01:35 AM
Cockroaches http://checkmate-boats.com/graemlins/Eyecrazy.gif http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Chris
10-16-2005, 10:38 AM
Termites might have been better. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
They don't eat glass do they? http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
It was basically a floating insect colony. They really were eating the rotting wood. there were places where the stringers were hollow. And what a stink! Fortunately cockroaches don't like Winnipeg winters. Actually there are lots of people who don't either. Wimps!
cooperider
10-16-2005, 11:49 AM
The winters, or the roaches? I guess finding Ants in the boat I was working on isn't so bad now.
Chris
10-16-2005, 12:04 PM
Geez,
I figured the termites might have removed all the old wood for ya for free. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Here is all the parts spread all over the driveway. This is what you call a "boat in a box". The previous owner had taken every single thing apart. The motor was a 2.4 Bridgeport. There were studs that were broken off during disassembly and parts missing. Though I'm sure I could have been able to reassemble it, it had been in salt water and it was going to be a nightmare. I put it on S&F for sale and sold it, as is, in one day. I shipped it in a crate and the guy who bought it couldn't have been happier. Those guys love these silly motors. They seem way too high maintenance for my liking.
The seats however had been completely redone by the factory and never installed. And though they were dirty from sitting in the wet hull a couple of years they were in excellent condition.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/sstP8150011.jpg
Sorry about the oversized picture above, I will do better here. If you look carefully at this pic you can see 1/4" holes in the hull where the Goof decided to drill deeper holes for the seat pedestals. Two of the holes went clear thru the hull. Here's a tip for repairing wet balsa core. You can see the wet core because it is darker than the surrounding area. Drill a small (3/16") hole into the core at the lowest spot where it is wet. Don't go thru the hull!!! Squirt acetone into the top hole until it comes out the bottom hole. This displaces the water. Now use a small vacuum cleaner on the bottom hole until the balsa is dried out. Then plug the bottom hole and squirt low viscosity epoxy in until it fills right up. You made need to do it again after it sets up since it will probably soak in. I did 13 holes and it worked perfectly. For the 2 holes that went right thru, I taped over the underside of hull and put fiberglass fibers down in the hole to create strength. Epoxy by itself lacks the integrity to seal holes. Adding the fibers makes a permanent strong repair.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/st107_0758.jpg
cooperider
10-17-2005, 02:08 PM
I cant wait to see the next picture. http://checkmate-boats.com/graemlins/bounce.gif
Okay, then I won't keep you waiting. Here I have installed the new stringers. They are a little tricky to build since they have to follow the contour of the bottom, and yet be level on top so that the floor goes on flat. Lots of trial and error. I glassed them onto the hull with double 1" strips of mat and held it all together with wood strapping and screws until it cured in place. I also weighted it down slightly to get a positive bond. After it cured I glassed them in using 2 layers of 6 oz. mat. I left the top surface bare since I was planning on glassing the floor in without screws or staples to produce a completely waterproof floor.
Notice how I have no drain holes between the compartments. I was doing away with the ski locker since I don't like those rickety teak hatches right in the middle of the floor where everybody steps. The floor was going to be solid and I was going to end up with 3 air tight and water tight compartments underneath. As I said earlier, I did not replace the foam, but even if I banged a hole into the hull, I would have 2 other air tight flotation compartments. Hey, just like how they built the Titanic!
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/st108_0857.jpg
175checkmate
10-18-2005, 10:29 AM
Looks great so far. I had sun also installing my stringers. In and out of the boat way to may times to make adjustments.
Here is the floor installed. I used the old floor as a template. It is 1/2" plywood glassed over on BOTH sides. In the 80's these floors were just resincoated on the underside (I don't know what they do now days). If it ever gets wet under there, the resin alone will not protect the wood. It is not a lot of extra work for a repair you will never have to think about again. I used double 1" strips of glass on top of the stringers and all around the perimeter. I put the floor pieces in place and weighted it down with bricks until it cured. No screws, nails or staples. Then the seams were covered in double 4-5" strips. You can see where the seat pedestals are going to go. There are probably several ways you can do this. I think Starflites have a slightly raised installation block. Female threaded inserts could also have been installed. I wanted the floor completely flush, so what I did was fiberglassed in a 12" by 12" piece of 3/4" plywood directly underneath. This gave me a 1 1/4" backing plate for the pedestals in which I screwed and epoxied large screws. I now have a water tight floor with no mechanical perforations that go right through.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/st110_1086.jpg
I had some black gelcoat I was using for cosmetic repairs so I decided to gel the bilge. It looks nice here but once I got the fuel tank, battery, seatboxes etc. in, you could hardly notice it was done. Positioning the cleats to mount the seatboxes was a challenge because the original ones had disintegrated and I wasn't sure exactly where to put them. They are in the bow as well, and once you glass them in, you are committed to where you put them. I obsessed a little over it and I think I got them spot on.
This hull had no original transom knees and I never added any. If I had known I was going to end up with 11" of setback, I think I would have beefed up the transom somehow. On the other hand, the one thing the previous owner did right is he had sealed the thru transom holes with 3M 5200 and the transom was completely dry and solid. Checkmate built these things originally to accomodate the 300 HP V8 Johnson. As long as it stays dry, I think it is going to be OK.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/stIMG_0189.jpg
Sorry, kinda messed up the picture placement. I don't know if Chris can, or wants to move it? Whatever!
Chris
10-19-2005, 12:05 AM
Looks good to me. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I hope I fixed that up the way you wanted. I took my best guess. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/graemlins/thumb.gif
Thanks Chris! I was spazzing out in the picture posting, but I'll figure it out eventually.
With the inside glass work competed, it was time to do something about the outside. 18 years in the Florida sun does a number on black gelcoat. Though it was heavily oxidized, the hull hardly had a scratch on it. I don't think it ever spent much time tied up to a dock. I wetsanded with 1000, then 1500 and compounded it and it still looked chalky. After trying a bunch of things I got a recommendation from a local fiberglass shop to try Aqua-buff. This is what they use to prep their molds. I found it the net and it is very effective. You apply it, mist it with water, and buff at high speed(2500+RPM). It will not work at lower speeds, in fact I did it at 3000 RPM. It is basically a water soluble paste with suspended silica sand. I think with Aqua-buff you could eliminate the wetsanding altogether. First time over use Aqua-buff 1000 and then Aqua-buff 2000. I then used a finishing compound, followed by Race Glaze polish. It was a time consuming and a bit messy(residue) procedure but I managed to bring the gelcoat back to an almost showroom condition. Black doesn't photograph well because of the glare of the flash, but maybe the reflection of this Tim Horton's(a Canadian obsession) coffee cup will tell the story.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/buff001.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/buff005.jpg
cooperider
10-19-2005, 08:51 PM
Aquabuff, I buy that by the 5 gallon bucket. Good stuff.
That Tim Hortons cup looks better in the reflection than it does in the pic.
Great looking pics.
bdusted440
10-20-2005, 12:06 AM
How about some finished pics > It looks sweet sofar. Ive been there .
Hey coop,
When are you going to post one of your projects from beginning to end, and show us amateurs how it is really done?
One of the biggest challenges of this project was finding all the missing parts at a reasonable price. Stainless steel hardware has gone through the roof. I went around to marinas and asked if they had old stock of any sort. I was able to find a lot of pieces that way. Most of the hardware has changed over the years and almost every thing I did I had to customize to make it work.
Mike at Checkmate is also a good source, but for Canadians, by the time you add shipping, exchange, brokerage and taxes you've bought some very expensive parts. The two stern cooler latches ended up costing me over $150. But I was not able to find anything else that was going to fit. I also went to a scrap yard that had a bunch of fiberglass hulls. That was probably my best bang for the buck. Among other things, I got this semi-rigid rubrail off of two different hulls(a Starliner needs 50') for $50. The insert I bought brand new, making the whole thing look new when it was all said and done. Of course the screw holes were not going to line up, so I plugged the old holes with epoxy soaked wooden dowels. I also resealed the seam between the hull and deck with 3M 5200 to keep the water out.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/stIMG_0193.jpg
Once all the hardware was installed on the outside, I re-did all the wiring, rigging, steering and gauges on the inside. The steering wheel is a brand new factory model that I got from SCT. It was off his last Pulsare, he had gone with an aftermarket one. Shannon is a great guy, he sent me the wheel w/o any exchange of funds and said "if you like it, send me $20 plus shipping". So I stiffed him! ....just kidding, thanks again Shannon! If you ever re-carpet make sure you use marine carpet or it will never follow the contour of the hull.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/st8.jpg
I installed both the oil tank and battery on the port side to give me a little counter-balance when running alone. It turned out be a good move as it ran nice and stable even by myself.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/st81.jpg
Now to power this beast. These hulls take big power if you want a rocket ship. Having sold the Bridgeport, I decided I wanted something that wouldn't cost a fortune to run, but would still be fun to drive. A DFI was beyond the budget, so a small block V6 is what it was going to be. I prefer Yamaha to them all but I could not find a used one in this size range. I found this 1992 2.5 200 XRI at a Merc dealer a couple of hours away. Compression and leak-down were perfect and I figured I had a cherry.
When I got it home I discovered it needed a new swivel shaft, bottom yoke, bushings, seals, motor mounts, stator and voltage regulators. The marina covered the parts but I still had to do the labor myself. The last thing I needed at this stage in the project was a big motor job.
The Detwiler is a great jack plate, but to my surprize 8" isn't quite enough for the small V6. The bow still felt a little heavy. Nevertheless this setup was good for 64 MPH, and there was more to come. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/st83.jpg
Well, after 10 months she was finally ready for the water, and just in time for July 1st. Excluding the cost of the motor, the restoration cost about $2000 in parts and materials and about a million dollars worth of labor.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/Picture025.jpg
Finally it was back in the water where it was born to be. Born again, I think it is now good for another 20 years.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/st75.jpg
Lake of the Woods, Ontario is a boaters paradise. A 100 mile long lake, 1000's of islands and bays. And because all the cottages are on the water and most on islands, you go everywhere by boat; Pizza Hut, Safeway grocery story, Walmart, etc. We are talking big money here and beautiful boats. Many times I would pull up to a dock next to a 25' Searay or Cobalt and people would walk right by them, look at the old Checkmate and ask if I would ever consider selling it. There is no doubt about it, these classics are head turners.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/st86.jpg
The lack of a pad probably costs a couple of MPH, but these stepped V hulls handle the chop beautifully. Even on windy days with white caps, I found I could run at WOT. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/st93.jpg
This is the view most other boaters get! http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/st96.jpg
cooperider
10-21-2005, 04:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mark:
Hey coop,
When are you going to post one of your projects from beginning to end, and show us amateurs how it is really done? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am saving up to start this Predictor project. I will have a camera to document it all. I never had a digital camera till recently so, while I do have a lot of pics of old projects, I have never took pics from start to finish.
I do have a friend of mine that does work with video, and he wants to put together a video of a project, styled after shows like American Chopper, Rides, Etc. He is just doing it for fun, and to use as something to show future employers. So it should be interesting. http://checkmate-boats.com/graemlins/surf.gif
bdusted440
10-21-2005, 10:14 PM
Nice looking mate.Coop you have to start anouther one and finish the one you have going .LOL http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
As I mentioned earlier, it didn't seem 8" setback was quite enough for the 2.5 Merc. I think it might be with a heavier 3.0 or a DFI. I came up with an inexpensive way to add spacers. I picked up a 2' piece of 3" by 3" heavy walled aluminum square tubing. Cost $20. Cut it into 2 one foot lengths and drilled it according to the motor bolt pattern. You must be very careful you get the holes exactly right or you could mount your motor crooked. The extra 3" made a big difference in getting the bow up. It will now run 65 MPH any day of the week, and on a good day I've seen 69 MPH. Next year I hope to break the elusive 70 MPH barrier.http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/buff009.jpg
jmahler
10-22-2005, 07:01 PM
You did one hell of a job. Boat looks awesome! I am glad to see that you took the time to do it the right way. We all get very antsy come spring time to slap it together. Great Job!! http://www.checkmate-boats.com/graemlins/thumb.gif
bdusted440
10-25-2005, 11:44 PM
The more i look at you're boat I think a starliner is in my future. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/graemlins/thumb.gif
Chris
10-25-2005, 11:51 PM
Thanks for sharing Mark.
That was very enjoyable. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
'91 Starliner
10-26-2005, 12:09 AM
http://www.checkmate-boats.com/graemlins/thumb.gif All I Can Say is WOW!! Very nice to see how you did everything. Very well documented...It's nice to see projects from start to finish like that. It is a classic and it looks great!
wickedrister
11-24-2005, 12:14 AM
Super job,it looks fast just setting still! I really like the pic shot from the front at the dock. That is one wicked looking boat http://www.checkmate-boats.com/graemlins/thumb.gif
aaronmt
01-21-2006, 01:42 PM
i sure hope my starflite turns out half ass nice as that! first class job !
Well, it is time to update this old thread. Three years ago when I reclaimed this Starliner there were holes drilled right into the core (to mount pumps and the like) by the moron who owned it before me. I dried the core with acetone, injected epoxy and figured I had it beat. When I was cleaning the hull this fall I discovered a huge bulge in the hull right in front of the transom. It was 14" by 42" and ran right into the V pad. I knew right away it was a seperated core. I was not excited about cutting open my new floor but I had no choice. Its a bit hard to see the bulge on the photo since it is a black boat...but you get the idea.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/DSC03006.jpg
I had to cut out the rear starboard floor and stringer to get at the whole area. Using a diamond cutting wheel I carefully cut out the core until I found good solid attachment to the outer hull. I had to go 2/3 into the core of the pad as well.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/DSC03001-1.jpg
Next I built a jig to push the outer hull back into shape. It was time consuming to make sure it was perfectly flat. There would be no second chance if I screwed it up once the glass cured inside.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/DSC03021.jpg
I consulted with Coop on what to do next and read his article on repairing a core. What an amazing resource this guy is. Imagine being able to email the guy who built your boat as to how to fix it. He's always willing to lend advice. Kudos to ya Coop!
End grain balsa is cool stuff. Light as a feather and you can cut it with a utility knife.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/core3-1.jpg
I put down 2 layers of mat, then the balsa (wetted out) and weighted it down till it cured. Then mat/cloth/mat. You can also see a little plastic block glassed in at the very bottom to attach the bilge pump. No holes in this core!
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/core3-7.jpg
Then I thought...I've got this thing opened up and the fiberglass materials handy...a good time to throw in some transom knees. I also beefed up the cross piece that runs the length of the transom by running another piece of 3/4" plywood under it. That gave me something to tie the knees into as well. The grunt work is done, now just to put everything back in place.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/iammarcuse/core-2.jpg
175checkmate
12-14-2007, 11:35 AM
Great job. Looks like its all supposed to be there. Ah the joys of older boats and the fun of putting them back together. :thumb:
teamhart2
12-14-2007, 11:39 AM
Looks great mark,
Im gonna be doing the same thing except on both sides of the pad once it warms up enough in new hampshire to work with glass, which should be sometime next june:rof: were you able to work the whole section at once or did you do it in multiple pieces?
The balsa in the pad section is a seperate since it sits a little lower and the hull balsa comes over top. However I repaired the whole thing in one go. Remember balsa core is already a bunch of little pieces held together by mesh...so it doesn't really matter how you lay it in. You could easily glass the whole repair at the same time which is far superior for strength and integrity.
cooperider
12-14-2007, 12:20 PM
The balsa in the pad section is a seperate since it sits a little lower and the hull balsa comes over top. However I repaired the whole thing in one go. Remember balsa core is already a bunch of little pieces held together by mesh...so it doesn't really matter how you lay it in. You could easily glass the whole repair at the same time which is far superior for strength and integrity.
You noticed that by tearing it out? Thats pretty good.
The side you replaced then was the second step in putting balsa in the bottom. The pad balsa gets put in with the first side that they put in. So when the have the hull tilted one way they do the bottom and the pad, then turn the hull and do the remaining bottom with some overlap of the glass.
I love how you braced the bottom. Good thinking.
And thank you for the kind words earlier.
Boston Predictor
12-14-2007, 08:26 PM
Great job. Looks very professional. are you going to gelcoat the bildge and make it all purdy?
Nope, I have no gelcoat left. I did last go around and by the time you get the gas tank, battery, oil tanks and seat box in you can't see it. Not going to worry about it this time.
sawcat
12-14-2007, 09:36 PM
Nope, I have no gelcoat left. I did last go around and by the time you get the gas tank, battery, oil tanks and seat box in you can't see it. Not going to worry about it this time.
Looks very good Mark :thumb: I know alot of work went into that baby
Question for ya ,Did your last application of resin have a wax additive.
If not, it will stay sticky will it not?
I just put a heat lamp on it for a couple of hours and it cured tack free. I mixed the last coat a little hot as well.
sawcat
12-16-2007, 09:03 PM
I should've known you had a trick up your sleave :)
zstevens
12-23-2007, 02:25 AM
very nice work to both you mark ,sawcat . ive got a ? for both of you i put in a gps/depth finder last year n mid season i figured my epoxy broke away from inside hull not completely but enuf to not function . i mounted transducer between rear of tank and the pad were my bildge pump sits . to redo / fix this i want to get back seat out this time , whats best n easiest way ? mainly the bottom of seat not back part as much .is it a unit or do they both have to come out ? thanks z
sawcat
12-24-2007, 12:04 PM
The back seat base frame & back wrap around are seperate
You would get better access removing both the rear seat base & the seat back,but you can reach it if you just remove the wrap around seat back.
It really shouldn't be necessary to remove the seat base.
I also think we just hijacked Mark's thread, but I didn't want to ignore you
So you installed a through-hull transducer? Why didn't you just mount it on the transom? Anyway, I would be inclined to seal it with 3M 5200. It will be permanent but it won't leak. You do not want to get any water into the core whatsoever...or you will be doing the repair I just did.
cooperider
12-24-2007, 12:20 PM
Is this a transducer that "reads" through the hull? Or one that you actually cut a hole to pass it through?
zstevens
12-31-2007, 02:47 AM
yeah i did sorry mark , it reads through the hull , i had to sand the fiberglass mat smooth to mount it . i'm worried about the wet factor as i read this post cuz i dont know how far the or where my epoxy separated . but i know it got wet . so i want to be able to get better access for repair . it works/ed great before mishap, i didnt want it hangin off the transom so i did inside mount
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