DETROIT BOAT SHOW

[merc245]

700,000 SQFT. OVER 600 BOATS AND NO CHECKMATES!THE 2 DEALERS THAT CARRIED THEM STATED THAT THEY ARE JUST TO MUCH OF A SPECIALITY ITEM.SO I GUESS TO MAKE MONEY YOU HAVE TO SELL BLOATED, UNDERPOWERED, GENERIC RUNABOUTS & CRUISERS, I.E. BAYLINERS RINKERS REGALS THOMPSONS ECT.ECT, THESE BOATS ARE AS BORING TO LOOK AT AS THEY ARE TO DRIVE. KINDA MAKES CHECKMATE A CUSTOM BUILDER HERE IN THE UPPER MIDWEST. MERC245

[merc245]

700,000 SQFT. OVER 600 BOATS AND NO CHECKMATES!THE 2 DEALERS THAT CARRIED THEM STATED THAT THEY ARE JUST TO MUCH OF A SPECIALITY ITEM.SO I GUESS TO MAKE MONEY YOU HAVE TO SELL BLOATED, UNDERPOWERED, GENERIC RUNABOUTS & CRUISERS, I.E. BAYLINERS RINKERS REGALS THOMPSONS ECT.ECT, THESE BOATS ARE AS BORING TO LOOK AT AS THEY ARE TO DRIVE. KINDA MAKES CHECKMATE A CUSTOM BUILDER HERE IN THE UPPER MIDWEST. MERC245

[senator-holland]

I'm glad that checkmate is not a brunswick company, so we can really enjoying a boat that is a little rare and special.

I personally hope that checkmate continues with doing what they do best: building sharp looking, fast, solid monohulls.

i think that when it's not commercial interesting to do a show, then don't. and if they do so checkmate keeps their money to invest in new boats and designs.

And in the end with that making their customers really happy. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif


-----------------------------
helmich
Checkmate senator special edition V8 5.7L-260HP
info@oost-west.nl

[JW]

Want to know what I do for fun at boat shows? I find some 'name brand' boat, like Mastercraft, and get a salesmans attention. Then I lean over and sight down the sides of his boat and point out the waves and ripples and say "boy, my Checkmate's never did that!"

http://www.checkmate-boats.com/images/avatars/Forums4.jpg

Checkmates owned: 1995 Pulsare 2100BR/1995 Mercury Promax 225 2.5 EFI. 1995 Persuader 183/4.3 LX V6. 1992 Pulse 171/1992 Mercury XR6 150 hp 2.5 liter.

[jrumon]

Ok guys...CHECKMATES WANTED!!!! Michigan's biggest boat show (Cobo Hall) and missing our favorite boats!!! I think Michigan is down to only two dealers now (Premier Motorsports on the states west side, and some little hole in the wall that was in Dexter)? Here is a case where these boats need better MARKETING!!! If the public can't SEE them to compare quaility and value for the money...how the hell are you gonna sell them and pull some of the new boat market share your way??? http://www.checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

If Checkmate is to strive and say alive, a game plan on much better marketing needs to be addressed big time! (I'm no expert, but I do have a marketing background & degree)... Better exposure in Magizines (get them boats to test), boat shows, better brochures, magizine ads, etc... The Checkmate name is well know, the product has always been good, but the 80's economy seemed to kill most the dealers handling Checkmate. If current boat dealerships aren't picking up the product line for whatever reason, than Checkmate should step up to the plate as a "simi-custom" producer available factory direct (which they already are..just very little know about it)... Trust me, there's not a single performance boater who would mind coming to get their new boat and see the factory (and maybe save a few bucks or pick up some free upgrades by cutting out the middle-man as well)... http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ABOUT THE BOAT SHOW...if theres no dealers in the area, than Checkmate still needs to get their product to the BOAT SHOWS for the public to SEE, even if they sell their boats from the factory! I'm sure several of us Checkmate fans would gladly help represent Checkmate at the some boat shows, help get boats to magizine tests, run evaluations, test drives, etc. if needed...ANY THOUGHTS??? I'm AVAILABLE...
anyone else??? JIM http://www.checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif

[175checkmate]

I can vouch for the quality for I have SEEN the inside of a mate. The quality is there, the workmanship is there. Show me a another make that has a bunch of 29 year old (or older in some cases) boats running around still. Not many.
But just like anything, spend millions on advertising and the cost will have to be absorbed thru high price. I kind of like the dare to be different, not a million mates runnig around. Gives us the custom boat owner feel.

http://www.checkmate-boats.com/images/avatars/GusAvatar2.jpg
http://checkmate-boats.com/images/avatars/Logo.jpg


1975 Checkmate Tri-mate 2, 2.4 200+ / Sky jacker 6" plate / 25p Laser 2 prop, Currently the boat is undergoing overhaul.

[F150GT]

I've got to agree with merc245, Checkmate needs to have a certain amount of market share to be profitable and stay alive. If people cant see them they wont think to evan consider buying them.
I was glad to see that there were two Check's at the Syracuse New York boat show, and after walking thru three buildings of boats my favorite was the Checkmate. I was surprised when I talked to the dealer rep and he didnt now squat about there boats. I swear I know more about there boats just from reading this site. I wasnt impressed with them, but where's a guy to go to get a sporty outboard speed boat.
Just for laughs I asked the baja dealer what they had in a 20' outboard? "NOTHING" With out Checkmate where would us outboard guys have to go, to bass boats?
OK enough rambling on -GO CHECKMATE GO-
WE LOVE YA!!

F150GT

[175checkmate]

Don't you just hate it when you know more about something than the people seeing the stuff.

http://www.checkmate-boats.com/images/avatars/GusAvatar2.jpg
http://checkmate-boats.com/images/avatars/Logo.jpg


1975 Checkmate Tri-mate 2, 2.4 200+ / Sky jacker 6" plate / 25p Laser 2 prop, Currently the boat is undergoing overhaul.

[jrumon]

I agree...It's been a long time since Checkmate was at the Boats shows around hear. It scares me that these major great-lakes area shows are getting no Checkmates at them. Like I said before... Checkmate should take a look at getting a small space at these shows and bring a few boats...staff it with a few factory reps (that know the boats) and get some forum sight guys to come in and help sell... What a better way to represent the product than to have actual Checkmate customers (forum members) help promote their product... COME and SHOW those BOATS!!! Jim.

[F150GT]

Has anyone else seen this years brochure? I picked up one at the boat show and it was pretty bad. It is only a 3 page fold out that had poor pictures at best. I understand that they are exspensive and you can go thru an awful lot at a 4 day show but?

Also did checkmate change some model names? In this brochure they listed a Pulse 210 which looked like the pulse and then a Pulse 2100 that looked like the pulsare? very confusing.
F150

[Chris]

Maybe the dealer put that brochure together himself. If Mate produced it, I'd appreciate it if they would send me one so I can post it for everyone. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.checkmate-boats.com/images/avatars/Logo.jpg
Webmaster
Checkmate-Boats.com-The Fanatics Home!

[jrumon]

F150GT is right....Kip sent me one of these new brochures (yikes..is this thing horrible)!
http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/sick.gif http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/jpshakehead.gif http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/irked.gif http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/brickwall.gif

Like I said before...Checkmate REALLY needs to get a MARKETING person (or at least job it out to professionals). We all know Checkmate makes a good product (it's the only reason they're still around), but I really fear that they are slowly slipping away... lack of dealers, lack of exposure (not at boat shows), poor product information (no quality brochures), etc.

Like I said before, I have multipal degrees in business; administration, management, and marketing...and speeking from experience, this company's heading for eventual failure... http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Please guy's...GET IT TOGETHER!!!

If you need help, ideas, or suggestions...just ask us on this forum sight... I'm in... Jim.

[senator-holland]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris:
Maybe the dealer put that brochure together himself. If Mate produced it, I'd appreciate it if they would send me one so I can post it for everyone. http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
i think you got it already http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[FRYED]

The 2004 brochure is definitely a no go. But what’s even worst is not having anything at all. I had to run to Kinko’s and have something made myself for our Jan. boat show. Some one buying a new boat wants something more to look at. Sure you can pull all the info you need off the web but I can’t carry my computer with me everwhere I go. I like the new web site but the brochure represents the boat. As much attention should be spent on the brochure as …. (you fill in the blank). It is what it is. http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[Bubba]

Fryed,
You are absoluut right, if you want to sell you have to show your boats better than this!!, is checkmate loosing alot bissnes, is the factory not making any money?? i hope the are!!

[Kip Combs]

That flyer was something we just through together so we had something for shows this winter.....did it through someone we never worked with before and some things got messed up picture quality wise. We'll have something new and different soon....i take a little offense by people saying we need new marketing people because that is part of my job here! I do what i can with what i'm given to work with money wise! http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/brickwall.gif

[Chris]

For those who are criticizing, hey you're entitled to your opinion. But take a look at the market place.

OMC-Bankrupt
Mariah-Bankrupt
American Skier-Bankrupt
Larson-Bankrupt

And there are a bunch more. The fact Mate is still in business building great boats, means they must be doing something right.

[senator-holland]

in these day's of recession, keeping your profit high is a art!
personally i love the small company's because as a customer i am more important than for a big or brunswick company.

[Convincor283]

I know one thing, I advertise for CHECKMATE every time I take my boat out,every time someone or a few people will ask about my boat and how I like it. So Kip keep producing a great boat and dont worry about producing a great peace of paper. I'll keep spreading the word.

[Chris]

I like Mate being small. If this was Bajaforums.com, I doubt we would have the support that we get from Kip and the factory. They send us sneak pics, ask for our feeback and are pretty quick to respond when someone makes a request.

But as Kip said, they are a small family run business. They don't have multi million dollar budgets for marketing programs etc. But look at the upside. Hand made boats, taylored to a buyers personal taste. Awesome quality! And don't forget they'll repair or restore it back to new for ya after you use it up!

I'll take that any day over some chopper gun boat that comes with a fancy brochure.

Just my .02 cents. http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif

[Bubba]

http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/surf.gif

[FRYED]

Were you born knowing Checkmate builds a great boat? That they're a small, family owned and operated company. That there gel work is second to none. That they have fast hulls and a customer loyalty that's unmatched in the market today. Things need to be said and a brochure is a good way to say it. I know brochures are a pain in the ass and very expensive. Hell it cost us $1.00 every time we handed out the 8 1/2 X 11 piece of paper that Kinko's printed up for us.
I a firm believer that if the person buying the boat doesn't like the boat, and doesn't like the price, there is nothing a salesperson or brochure, can do or say to make them buy it! I'm also a firm believer that word of mouth is everything. Checkmate holds a good name in my area and the people that own Checkmates love to talk about them. So I don't think we lost any sales do to brochures but who knows. Although was kinda strange putting on a major boat show and going up against the big boys with out having a brochure to hand out. So I'm glad to hear Checkmate plans to come out with something else. Just for the people that weren't born knowing Checkmate builds an awesome boat.

[jrumon]

OK..OK..OK... I sound like a broken record...and from the sound of things, many other members feel the same way! It a shane that those new checkmates aren't getting the attention they deserve!!!

This is my "3-cents worth"...

Checkmates are a great boat...no question.

Nice quality for the money...no question.

Performance...no question.

Styling and looks...no question.

Yes...they sell on reputation, seeing them occcasionally on the water, and word of mouth... but that is "cave-man" marketing and doesn't bring sales numbers for company prosparity, product developement, advertising, employees, and the bottom line... profit!

So guys...heres the problem:

Lack of public exposure...BIG TIME!!!

Lack of boats at the boat shows...BIG TIME!!!

Lack of quality lititure...BIG TIME!!!

Yes, the Checkmate web site is good at showing models...but think what having a few boats on display (i.e. the Detroit Boat Show & others) would do for drawing in prospective buyers... Casr in point: People were flocking all over the two 20 Baja outlaws (one white open bow, one yellow closed bow) and the sales guys said they sold 26 of them at the Detroit show that week...26!!! There is a BIG market for 18'-24' performance boats (affordable that is). Say what you want, but BAJA knows how to market (and we all know they started off as a "checkmate" copy)... That boat show could sure have used some CHECKMATES to pull in some competition and show the hundreds of thousands of of prospective buyers what CHECKMATE is all about. Trust me...the mates would have sold BIG-TIME!!! (factory direct not some Bozo dealership looking for middle-man mark-up)!!!

It goes back to the same old saying..."it takes money to make money"...spend a few bucks on quality brochures and surely get a few boats out to those boat shows!!! Your return on investment will be 100 times over without a problem!!! Plus most of it can be written off as "advertising expenses" anyway... you guy's at Checkmate aren't affraid that DEMAND will overcome your supply abilities are you???

OK...I've done enough digging on the marketing of Checkmate. I would even jump in at the shows to help sell the things! If there's ANY way us forum members could help we would...

Keep up the great boats...just wish they had better exposure!!! Jim. http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif

[Bubba]

Jrumon, http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif, my spelling is to bad, bud that is what i want to say also you are right!!

[merc245]

I THINK RIGHT NOW, WE CAN ALL BE AMBASSSADORS FOR CHECKMATE BOATS. JUST BY BEING PROUD OWNERS AND BY THIS SUMMER PUTTING THEM OUT FRONT & CENTER, RUNNING THEM HARD WITH CONFIDENCE. KEEPING THEM CLEAN AND WELL MAINTAINED. I KNOW PERSONALLY OF HOW WELL BUILT THEY ARE. AND I SELL THAT FACT ALL THE TIME. MERC245 P.S. KIP WHAT ABOUT THAT TOUR DAY THIS SUMMER.

[FRYED]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jrumon:That boat show could sure have used some CHECKMATES to pull in some competition and show the hundreds of thousands of of prospective buyers what CHECKMATE is all about. Trust me...the mates would have sold BIG-TIME!!! (factory direct not some Bozo dealership looking for middle-man mark-up)!!!
http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jrumion,
I agree with some of the things you said about advertising but you are totally clueless if you think the factory can go-it alone. There's no boat manufacture in the world that can survive without having a good stable dealer network. And there's nothing wrong with a dealer making money. Do you work for free? The problem with you is that you have all the answers but no money to back it up. One medium size boat show can cost a dealer $40,000 to $50,000. Do you think the manufacture could go-it alone across the country? We do 5 shows a year. Add that up and try to pay your bills without that "middle-man markup". I can tell you if you were a boat dealer or a manufacture, you wouldn't be in business long. And lets talk about service. Is that free to? If you have a "Bozo dealership" in your area than I'm sorry about your luck. Not all of us are Bozo's.
I give you credit. Checkmate builds a great boat. Good thing you don't make any of their business decisions. I hope you teach Performing Arts and not Business.
And that's my 4-cents. Have fun boating and next time you want to share your 3-cents, you might want to think about it first.

[Leedo Lanes]

Way to go Fryed...that is just what I was thinking. jrumon has been bragging about his multiple degrees in business but in all that schooling, I don't think he ever learned about what practical marketing costs. Obviously, if Checkmate could do all the things that he talks about they would be doing it. These are certainly not "New Ideas" from jrumon. It all comes down to the costs involved. If business was that simple, we would all be rich!

[Chris E]

fryed: one word - amen!

People need to understand that the best isn't cheap, that good service costs and a good dealer is more than worth their weight in gold. If they can't handle those realities then please get out of boating and go golfing or something.

[jrumon]

Sorry...you guy's missed the point!!! (and thanks for the stabbing)...I had that coming for the "middle-man" bash...I guess I should have been clearer and there is some GOOD GUYS out there too! My appoligies...

...what I was saying (and apparently many other forum members too) is that we feel Checkmate really needs to have some of their boats represended at these "larger" boat shows in a manner better than they are doing currently (which is NONE...ZERO...ZILTCH)...either WITH or WITHOUT dealership involvement (if none are available in the area)... BUSINESS 101...if people doen't see them or know about them...you can't SELL them!!! Any idiot knows about supply and demand...but lack of MARKETING is a lack of demand...a lack of demand is a lack of sales...a lack of sales is a lack in production or PROFIT... You get the point I'm sure!

About the Boat Shows: if there's no 'Mate dealers in the area, CHECKMATE can get a few of these boats to the shows factory direct (or maybe offer dealers incentives to show the boats). The Factory reps could always reffer prospective buyers to the closest dealership (but that might be a state or two away it seems)....

YES...I realize that floor space is money (and they would only need enough to display a few models to show)... IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY!!! There is no dought that the boats on display will draw interest away from other competitors (baja and others). To back up the product (boats), the company still needs good and effective sales information showing what else is available...like boat show computer terminals to access the Checkmate home page to show other models/features/specs/etc....(like Baja does), better brochures, etc......but to have NO Checkmates at these large scale boat shows is a crime!

AGAIN... If there is no dealers in the area (and I understand product support), no boat show representation, etc... How are prospective boat buyers supposed to see and compare them to others to BUY them??? When's the last time you bought a car sight-unseen???....my guess is NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These CHECKMATES are great boats, but they deserve to be shown off!!! Jim.

[JW]

OK ya'll, it's been an interesting thread here! Good opinions all around. Let's all shake hands and let it die out, what you say? Thanks for everyone's input! One thing for sure, everyone can agree that Checkmate builds a GREAT boat! We can all do what we can to help advertise the boats just by being here and enjoying our rides http://www.checkmate-boats.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[jrumon]

I AGREE WITH JW...if we didn't like the boats, we wouldn't be on this sight! Guess I owe you guys some cold one's if we ever get a Checkmate gathering together... (then we can agrue away at next year's boat shows)... Best to you all....and only 8 weeks til boating season!!! Jim. http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/thumb.gif

[supergenius74]

I have always loved checkmates, I have a fine eye for detail and have always known they were better boats even before joining this forum. I think its hard for some people to understand that maybe they don't want to grow into some uber corporate controlled company (bayliner) that makes a ton of so-so boats. They are still around after many have gone out of buisness so they know what they are doing, I wouldn't worry about them leaving any time soon. If a possible customer doesn't take the time to consider a checkmate then its just too bad for them, they don't deserve such a fine boat.

[BOB'S 283]

years ago checkmate used the tag line , "the legend continues" ...... this site proves it's still true more than ever. these boats have earned a place in our hearts . we want this company to not only survive , but to flurish , so that we can buy another checkmate some day , or maybe kick the azz of some baja or whoever . CHECKMATE ! GITZER DONE !!!

[merc245]

I HAVE TO AGREE, GROWING UP I ALWAYS WANTED A CHECKMATE WITH A BIG OLE' MERC HANGING OFF THE BACK. THEY ARE WERE COOL IN AND OUT OF THE WATER. TOOK TILL I WAS A GROWN MAN TO REALIZE THAT DREAM.I'M GOING ON MY TENTH SEASON WITH THE SAME 92 STARFLIGHT.MY FATHER TRIED TO TALK ME INTO BUYING A "NICE BOAT" BUT I KNEW WHAT I WANTED I WANTED THE BEST MY MONEY COULD BUY AND THATS CHECKMATE! AND I HAVE NOT 1 REGRET IN 10 YRS.

[MrWick]

I have a 19 year old Checkmate that I have spent almost a year now cleaning it up and repairing stuff that the previous owners let go.I am as proud of this old boat as the new Checkmates I have had in the past.I get compliments from everyone,they can't believe it is a 1985 model.This 19 year old boat looks as good as,if not better than a very high precentage of boats being built today.I haven't really had it in the water yet but I love working on it to make it better and better.Checkmate keep up the good work.

[cooperider]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kip Combs:
That flyer was something we just through together so we had something for shows this winter.....did it through someone we never worked with before and some things got messed up picture quality wise. We'll have something new and different soon....i take a little offense by people saying we need new marketing people because that is part of my job here! I do what i can with what i'm given to work with money wise! http://checkmate-boats.com/6/ws/,s,8626072361/Graemlins/brickwall.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Kip I stopped by last monday and picked up one of those brochures and they were sad. Talked to Mike and your Dad. It was good to see them and saw that mold you guys are working on it looks sweet.

[92Enticer]

Excellent thread actually, some good and bad points and learning as well.

First, having alot of trade show exeprience for NEC Canada, i spent many years as Senoir SE for eastern ontario and western Quebec. And i'l make it known, the waste of money and time in most computer shows was collossal. With exception of a few as i call them "Name recognition" shows, most were useless and full of what we call in the business "tire kickers".

A tire kicker wouldnt buy quality if his life depended on it. NEC made some of the best laptops in the world, but all the shows and work in them wouldnt stop most idiots who attended for savnig 5 bucks and buying a Eurocom.

Checkmate is a supplier of quality, it costs a bit more, but worth every penny. Fact is that means you have just chopped off 75% of the market place. why? Ask yourself, do you buy heinz ketchup or save a few cents and buy the almost as good presidents choice? Theres a reason presidents choice brand is the leading brand for sales. As Checkmate owners we buy Heinz, but just watch the buyers carts in the store next time and you can see who cares about quality over price.

Convincor283, and Merc245 said it best, as Owners and kinda fanatics, we are the ambassadors for Checkmate. Everytime we pull up to a warf, or back our boat down that ramp we score a win for Checkmate. I cant put my boat in anywhere and not draw the attention of almost every person at a ramp. I get even more once i tell them its a 92 year.

On the water, its even better. I stop, I draw other boats in to me, they all come to stop and admire my little bowrider.

I do wish Checkmate had a little better market attention, but advertising is the costliest and hardest to justify the expenditure for. If Checkmate remains competitive by picking their events and shows, or advertising avenues, then thats what they need to do.

Just all keep in mind one very important fact. Every dollar spent on a brochure, or cross country boat show, is one less dollar spent on development of their next awesome super water machine we all can't wait to see.

Checkmate doesnt need to market in the Upper Ottawa Valley, in Renfrew/Algona Counties. They all ready have a rep there who works for free, and loves his job.