Transom Time

[TruckinMatt]

Ok summer I purchased a 73 MX-16 for a steal knowing it was just a hull and needed work. I knew it needed floors and interior but to my suprise it needed a transom as well. I have separated the top from the hull and have cut out the transom from the inside.
Two weeks ago I purchased a 72 MX-16 that had alot of the parts I was missing such as the windshield steering, rigging, ETC ETC. I was hoping I could just put my motor on this one and use this one for the summer while I redid everying on the other one. When I picked up the boat most of the transom was as soilid as the person I had bought it from said it was. But after a quick check of the old bolt holes from the motor it seems there is some good rot around those holes. Across the top and along the sides of the transom is solid and I was wondering if there was any quick fix to get me through the summer. I have heard lots of talk of engine plates and was wondering if this could get me through a season or do I build both boats this summer. I purchased the First one with my brother and this last one solo. I figured we could each have one this way. I also just happen to have two Evinrude 115s. But back to the topic, either way I have one if not two transoms to start working on in order to be boating anytime soon.
When doing a transom I have been told to only use marine ply and then read here not to use it because it doesnt accept the resin well. Ive been to my local boat store and the guy there who repairs transoms said he likes the West System for his fiberglass work. Does anyone recomend it or maybe some other product. Is there any major disadvantages to using regular resin and glass. I want to build these boats once and keep them for life. I want them to be strong and last a long time. I am on a bit of a budget but I only like doing things the right way so thats why I'm here. From what I have read here you guys know your stuff. Heres a pic of the MX-16s. I played around with MSpaint and chopped the windshield on the one on left. I think thats probably how far I will chop it down. http://myspace-861.vo.llnwd.net/00701/16/86/701996861_l.jpg

[175checkmate]

Congrats on the new boats. As far as the transom plate goes, are you planning on using a jack plate. If so you could fill the factory holes with resin and re drill new holes a bit higher and add a transom plate. The transom plate will help distribute the weight over a larger area.
As far as the west system stuff goes. We its the top of the line and the price shows. The boat was built with polyester resin. During the restoration of my trimate I have gone through 27 gal of polyester resin. Granted most of it has been sanded off, but still. As long as the wood is sealed regular resin will work great and last a long time.

[TruckinMatt]

I dont plan on using a jackplate anytime this season. I took a screwdriver and stuck it in the bolt holes and I can go down an inch to inch and a half into soft wood and the glass has delamenated from the wood in this area only. Time for a good plate or too late??? What kind of wood did you use in your transom and floors?

[Blizz]

Use marine ply for the transom you can use reg exterior for other parts. Marine ply for the transom because there are no voids in the laminates like reg ply. West is one of the best but you can also use plain ole poly..

[TruckinMatt]

Blizz thanks for the info on the ply, I always thought marine ply was the way to go but I was reading one thread here and someone was saying that treated and marine ply had issues as far as adhesion with the resin. Before I went through all the work of building it I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to go the wrong route. I know I need to laminate two pieces together to get my desired thickness do you just use resin to hold them together or should I put down some matting. Thanks again Matt

[Diplomat82]

Make sure you double check the epoxy issue....I was always told that epoxy and/or fibreglass would not adhere correctly to marine plywood. I have no info to back it up thou.

[tjc360]

My choices on resin for the transom, in order, would be epoxy, vinylester resin and then polyester resin. The relative strength of epoxy, brittleness(is that even a word?) and its ability to bond to cured polyester resin is far better than poly on poly. Also its working time until cure is much more forgiving for us amatures and creates a much stronger laminate. West System is good stuff but there are much cheaper places to get epoxy resin.

Any of these resin types will bond just fine w/ marine ply.

If you have some time for a bit of research on materials and procedures check out the "projects" forum on www.classicmako.com Go to forums, then "Mako Projects"
These guys carve up and rebuild glass boats for kicks.


For materials check:

http://www.fgci.com/ or

(U.S. Composites)
http://www.shopmaninc.com/resins.html

Hope that helps. T.

[Wildman78]

I used the west system epoxy resin on my skimate, that i am just about finished with the floor and stringer on. I never did this before and it seemed to work great for me. It's expensive but the stuff is hard as a rock, cured smooth andwas very easy to work with. wish ya luck with that transom

[Diplomat82]

For epoxy, also check out www.clarkcraft.com they sell Epoxy plus. I used it in my mate and really liked how it wet-out the cloth.
$55 a gallon
$215 for (5) gallons

[TruckinMatt]

I was wondering what kind of plywood the factory used back in the 70's and what kind do they use today in there new boats? How many gallons of resin will be required to do a transom on a 16' boat? Thank you for the links they have been very helpful.

[TruckinMatt]

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/willyscj63/album?.dir=80aere2&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

[Blizz]

Seeings noone answered yes you need to put a layer of matt between your plies. And all the resin info is right on epoxy is best but will cost a little more. It's hard to say how much you'll need depends how much you waste. You should be able to purchase West system locally to you buy what you want if you need more it's not far away start with 3-5 gallons..

[TruckinMatt]

ok after I laminate the two together then I adhere it to the rear hull fiberglass. I would assume that I use similar techniques to afix it to the rear of the hull like I did when laminating the two piece of ply together. Then I would mat and resin over the whole thing. I am i missing anything? and what would I used to fill in any gaps i may have on the bottom or sides of the ply to the hull? thanks agian

[Blizz]

You are correct for bonding transom. You can fill any small gaps with a slurry of resin and thickener of your choice.

[TruckinMatt]

Thanks agian for all your help Blizz

[Blizz]

Anytime.. Keep us up to date on your projects..

[TruckinMatt]

i will do. would love to show pics along the way once i really get into it

[TruckinMatt]

My brother and I spent the afternoon drilling out rivets and separating the upper and lower halfs of the hull. The rub rail came off really nice and the rivets came out good too but I cant get the splashwell to separate from the inside of the transom. I did it on the other boat and it came right out but this one seems to be cemented. Any thoughts on removal.

http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/41c47975z1f676d08/80aere2/__sr_/f236re2.jpg?phge_XEBq07IhnZB

[TruckinMatt]

My brother and I spent the afternoon ripping out the interior, drilling out rivets and separating the upper and lower halfs of the hull. The rub rail came off really nice and the rivets came out good too but I cant get the splashwell to separate from the inside of the transom. I did it on the other boat and it came right out but this one seems to be cemented. Any thoughts on removal.

http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/41c47975z1f676d08/80aere2/__sr_/f236re2.jpg?phge_XEBq07IhnZB
http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/41c47975z1f676d08/80aere2/__sr_/4b31re2.jpg?phge_XEBKUJ977pQ
http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/41c47975z1f676d08/80aere2/__sr_/51b6re2.jpg?phge_XEBbWFlK2wv
http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/41c47975z1f676d08/80aere2/__sr_/6216re2.jpg?phge_XEB946zGC8l
http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/41c47975z1f676d08/80aere2/__sr_/88efre2.jpg?phIu_XEBf3KjpK_f
http://f3.yahoofs.com/users/41c47975z1f676d08/80aere2/__sr_/6996re2.jpg?phIu_XEB9FIQAGsp

[TruckinMatt]

and why is it when i used the image code it still makes my pics as links?

[Kary]

I just seperated the deck on my MX15 and had a tough time with the splashwell, too. I have a forbe(a 2X3 glassed to the transom inside) and had to cut it to gain prybar access under and between the splashwell. Seperate the top seam of the deck from the transom from the rear. I took a 5' 1X1 and raised the deck at the center of the bow up front to make the splashwell pull a little as I used an airsaw(or sawzall) to cut the inner transom skin of glass and mat at the joining area only about a 1/4" deep. Be careful not to cut the skin(gelcoat). I took a snapon prybar(other brands will work) and pryed VERY carefully until I heard it start seperating and popping. The 1X1 did the rest as I GENTLY pried it apart from the bottom of the splashwell away from the trasnsom. I did this AFTER I seperated the top seam of the deck from the transom from the rear. Mine started popping and as I took the prybar and started seperating and helping it along it POPPED off and the whole deck jumped to the side(I didn't have anyone there to hold it just in case) and landed a little swauker jawed on the hull.....be careful, it jumps off and shifts...have someone hold it to steady it as it pops apart. I hope this helps ya.

[Kary]

The forbe runs just under the splashwell on the inside along the transom horizontally. Cut it out so you can dig behind the splashwell. Chris Spaeth educated me on that.

[TruckinMatt]

I have that same 2x3 glassed in under my splashwell on the transom too. I will try cutting that out to pry from underneith. Did yours have a almost concrete type cement holding it together because thats what mine has and boy is the stuff tuff. I already have the whole upper deck removed and loose except for the splashwell. So Ill try your technique tomorrow and see what happens. thanks for your help. Check out the pics I took you can get a good idea of where I stand. Here is the full album, latest pics are in there.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/willyscj63/album?.dir=80aere2&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

[aqua]

Make sure you use a chopped strand mat between the laminate layers of plywood for your transom. The easiest way is to cut your patterns for both pieces(they should be slightly different because of the transom angle), and then glass between and screw every three inches over the entire surface. This will make sure you have a nice bond with no air pockets(start in the middle and screw in a circular pattern so all excess resin will be squeezed out). I also like to rough up the wood surface with a 40 grit sanding disc on my grinder to help promote adhesion. Good luck, it will all be worth it in the end!!

[TruckinMatt]

Aqua, I ordered 1 1/2 chopped strand mat today from US composites. That was the heaviest they had. As far as screwing the pieces together do you leave the screws in once its hardened or do you take them out. If I leave them in should I use a stainless screw? What have you found to work best as far as attaching the ply to the existing transom fiberglass. Thanks

[Kary]

It's not a forbe-it is called a thorpe which is structural. I am replacing mine with knees.

[TruckinMatt]

I removed the thorpe from the inside tonight to try to gain access to free up the back of the splashwell. I still cant get it apart. The cement seems to go up about 6 inches so what i think i am going to do is cut out the wood from the inside around the well and lift it off and hopefull that will work. Then i can deal with getting the back side of the splashell clean after its apart. Boy am I itch. The pantyhose trick works very well for cutting down the itchies but it doesnt get everything. But thanks to whoever posted the pantyhose trick because it does help alot.

[Kary]

If the transom is saturated enough it will pull apart when you trim through the skin.
We use duct tape and pull the itchies out...it also gets the hair....OW

[TruckinMatt]

here they are

[TruckinMatt]

heres the interior after we gutted it and a front shot of the split hull.

[TruckinMatt]

If the transom is saturated enough it will pull apart when you trim through the skin.
We use duct tape and pull the itchies out...it also gets the hair....OW
most of the wood is still in pretty good shape, well pretty solid at least. There is about a one foot circle around where the motor mounts that is soft, the rest is solid but wet to the touch. If i waited another year im sure it would have been soft enought just to tear out. I already cut the glass out around the splashwell on the inside of the transom but it was still holding pretty well so today I will cut out the first layer of wood from the inside. From the outside playing with prybars and chisles i was able to seperate the two layers of plywood just behind the splashwell. Wish me luck

[TruckinMatt]

cutting out the wood from the inside worked great, feels good to be getting somewhere. Turns out the wood inside wasnt as good as I thought but nowhere near as bad as the 73. heres some pics

[TruckinMatt]

From the front

[TruckinMatt]

This is how far I got today with limited time, Hopefully tomorrow I will have time to get it all out. Here is also a pic of the factory graphics, does anyone have any idea if I can get these same ones anywhere?

[Chris]

That's a lotta work.

You'll get there though. :)

[TruckinMatt]

Thanks Chris ,Im hoping to have one of the two afloat for t he summer. After the transom I am going to regelcoat the top of the 72, does anyone know the flashtime between coats for gelcoat? Im going all original, It is orange metal flake that fades to black in the center. Should look good. Im going to go wild on the 73. I still need seats in any condition if anyone has any.

[aqua]

TruckinMatt,
You want to make sure you remove all wood from the transom. I use a flapper 40 grit disc on my grinder for this, as it is more gentle than a grinding disc. You just want to make sure your surface is clean.
If your surface is fairly smooth, then your next step would be to pattern your 1 1/2 oz. chopped strand mat. I like to use two layers to mount the transom wood to the original transom glass.
Before I forget, you DO want to remove the screws you used for laminating the transom wood. If you don't strip the heads keep them for future use.
Next, use structual putty from your local marine supplier(this will be a polyester/vinylester product which is capatable with your M.E.K.P hardner your using with your resin) if it is not, then it is a "bondo" for above waterline applications only, DO NOT USE THESE PRODUCTS, only use "marine-below the waterline" products.
Using this structual putty you want to lay it in the bottom of the hull, and the two corners, so that when you put your transom wood in place(wich you have already pre-wetted out with resin) it will make this putty ooze out of the joint.
Next, wet out your transom wood, especially on the back side and the two sides and lower edge so that it will have a good chemical bond with the structual putty.
Now you wet out your C.S.M. and apply to the transom glass, followed by the next layer of C.S.M. Now put your transom wood in place, and start screwing from the outside of the transom into your wood. Again starting in the middle and working in a circular pattern. Once the screws are in you want to smooth out the structual putty that has oozed out of the joints.
I like to use a plastic putty knife that I cut a 1" radius on the two corners. This radius will give you great strength and allow easy glassing.
You now have one of two choices: you can either take a break and wait for your glass to fully cure before you continue, or, you can try and finish the job now. Remember that if your resin starts to kick, your job will be ruined and you'll have to grind off any faulty resin.
If you let the resin cure, then you need to scuff up the surface with the grinder to prep for the next step(I'm assuming your using waxed resin, which I also use).
Cut strips of your C.S.M. about 4" wide and then some 6" wide. You also want to cut C.S.M. in the pattern of your transom plus 4" extra on the two sides and the bottom, two layers of this pattern.
You want to wet out the area of the radiused joint, and lay down the 4" tape so that the center of the tape is at the radius. Next do the same thing with the 6" tape. Then wet out the C.S.M. and apply both layers to the inside of the transom. Make sure you have your corners notched so you don't have any puckers in the glass. This is a good time to also glass in any transom knees if you are doing so. At any rate once your glassing is all done, you want to roll out any air bubbles with a resin roller that you will find at your local fiberglass supplier.
Your done for now, so grab a cold drink, and get some fresh air!!

[cooperider]

Hey aqua, you can use MEKP to make bondo harden. I used to use it to prank a fellow worker, he would get ready for the next day by laying out a big glob of filler on a putty board, so that we was ready for the next morning. He would just toss it out if I used the benzoil peroxide to harden it. But then I disovered that MEKP wont change the color of the bondo. What fun that was. :rof: