New Toyota truck

[harleyherb]

After 25 years of owning Chevy trucks, I just bought a Toyota Tundra with the 5.7 V8 (380hp). I'm pulling a 31' toyhauler and a 25' Checkmate. But most of the time I'm pulling my 16'trailer with the motorcycles on it. I haven't pulled the boat or the bikes yet, but I pulled the camper yesterday and was really surprized at how good it pulled the load(about 9000 lbs) I hope it does as good as my last Chevy HD. I guess I'm just bragging that I got a new truck, just wish it was paid for.

[Chris E]

i've been a gm guy forever as well, but i'm am seriously considering a tacoma in the next year or so - nice truck!

[Persuader183]

Why would you boys be wanting to send your money over to Japan? Were your Chevys that bad?

[JW]

The Toyota is made in America by American workers, and the Chevy isn't. In my opinion, more money stays in American buying American 'made' goods than foriegn................:p

[83PREDICTOR]

I am in the market for a Tacoma myself. I cant wait to get out of my Ranger

[USAFaggie]

where the hell are chevys made then?

[JW]

My Chevy Avalanche was made in Mexico (they all are). The Pickups are made in several places. I've owned 3 Chevys and 3 Toyotas over the last 15 years, and loved them all. I'm not biased when it comes to that.

[JW]

The American big 3 (2 if you figure Dodge is foriegn owned) have huge costs in retirement and wages here in the States, so they have to build overseas to compete. The Japs (and soon the Koreans) have no such history, they can build plants in the states and enjoy low cost of wages and retirement/health benefits because they learned from our mistakes.

[Chris E]

I am in the market for a Tacoma myself. I cant wait to get out of my Ranger


thinking about one of these too, what are you looking at. i need the double cab and 4wd - not an option in snow country. - look like a pretty good truck, first time i would ever own something that wasn't gm

[83PREDICTOR]

I am going to get a double cab. I would like to get 4x4 but if not I'll at least get the 2wd with the TRD locking rear diff.
And just so you know, the front coil springs on the non-TRD last a lot longer and dont sag as much as the TRD springs do.

[MateFever]

The new Tacoma's are a big bigger and all around a great truck but the previous generation ones I absolutely love. The have a nice stance, great power for the size, very capable off road and get pretty good mileage. One nice thing than many don't know is you can get a factory TRD Supercharger from Toyota or anywhere for the 3.4 and have around 270 hp in a compact pickup and it really doesn't change the mileage any. Very solid built truck.

[Chris E]

that sounds like fun!!

[harleyherb]

I hate to bust the bubble on all the Chevy fans, but Chevy is building a truck plant in China. Like I said, I've owned Chevy trucks for the last 25 years, my biggest complaint with them is their weak transmission. I pull my Checkmate 253, my flatbed trailer with my bikes, and pull my 31'camper/toyhauler. The last 3 Chevy trucks that I've owned gave me trouble with the transmission

[Jamey]

I have owned Chevy's and Ford's, and in 2004 I bought my first new truck. I got a Tacoma double cab 4x4, and for what it's worth, it's the best vehicle I've ever owned. It tows my 21' Entertainer with no problem at all. My driveway is so steep, I had to remove the lower portion of the outdrive over the winter just to back it up into my garage so I could work on it ... slipped it in 4 wheel low, and I really didn't even have to give it any gas to back 2,500 lbs practically straight up hill. The only vehicle I've ever owned that could possibly compete with it for off road use was my 93 Jeep Wrangler, but it wasn't as good a vehicle overall. I LOVE this truck, and if all goes as planned, my 7 year old will drive it when he turns 16!

[BullittBen]

I don't know what Chevys you've had transmission problems with, but it must have been pre-99.

I have no use for Toyotas for a number of reasons.

1 - The profits go to Japan. I don't care where they're made. That's a cop-out. Even if GM builds a plant in China, the profits will come here, not to those Commie whackjobs. Car companies don't build plants for the good of the country they're in, they do it for the good of the company.

2 - Toyota holds patents on parts so that you HAVE to buy replacements from them, even when the cars get old and are worthless. That's good business on their part, but to anyone who owns one, it's dirty. My poor helpless Grandmother in Law has to pay like $15 for wiper refills and $50 for blades on a worn out '95 Toyota Previa.

3 - Misleading commercials. That new so-called 1/2 ton truck is a 1 ton. If they compared to a new 2500 Duramax GM truck with the Allison transmission, the GM would run rings around it (hmmm 400 lb/ft vs 660 lb/ft) for about the same price. Instead they chose to identify theirs as a 1/2 ton because they could and knew it would be a good marketing tool. The brake rotor they hold up in that one commercial looks like if came off of an S-10 or a Ranger. That's a good comparison to a 1-ton truck.

Notice I'm not knocking the quality. You can't deny that historically Toyotas have been great vehicles.

Luckily, since 99, GM has been making a truck that I would put up against anything in the world (some of you have heard me say this before). My family has had 3 of these that have gone up to a total of around 400,000 miles and the total repair costs have been about $300 for an ABS electronic part on a 99 (which went up to 190,000 miles before being sold recently when my Dad bought a new one). My 2002 has 120,000 with zero maintenance other than oil changes about every 8-10k miles (Mobil 1 Synthetic using the Oil Change Monitor on the truck). I think I may put some spark plugs in it, just for good measure because I drive the wheels off of it and if it helped my mileage 1% it would be worth it. It will tow 7000 or 7500 lbs, get 20 mpg unloaded, haul my whole family, dogs and even tow my Mate with little mileage sacrifice.

I will never buy anything else.

[JW]

I'm feeling pretty guilty today. One of my best buds was really hot after a new Dodge 4 door 4X4 with the new diesel in the 2500 chassis. He's been a 'Dodge boy' for decades. He went to his dodge dealer twice to drive the truck. Everyone knows the Cummings diesel is a superior engine, with a 6-speed auto, surrounded by an average truck. He was hours from buying it.

They were still working on pricing when he called me about something unrelated and I mentioned, JUST FOR COMPARISON, that he should go drive the new Tundra Double Cab TRD 4X4 with the 5.7 V8 and 6 speed auto option. I was interested to see what a dedicated diesel Dodge boy would think of the comparison between a 2500 Dodge Cummings 4X4 with the new big engine compared to the new Toyota Tundra with the new big engine. He called me about 3 hours later, just finishing paperwork on the new Tundra............... :o

[Chris E]

where i live, most marina's had used gm product for years, that was until ford came out with that super duty diesel - 99 - 2000 i think. gm's now take a back seat to the fords and having driven all three, there is no comparison the ford superduty diesel is by far the best puller around. in fact, we had to pick up a 28 sea ray sun sport in michigan and pulled it to muskoka behind a superduty sitting on a hydraulic trailer and the truck had no problem maintaining 80mph (our driver was/is an idiot!)

for me at the moment, the trailering issue isn't that important, i can't feel an 18 ft searay behind my astro van, so a mid size truck will be no different. when the checki finally arrives (hopefully next year) it won't be much strain on a truck (under 3000lbs) what i want is for my butt to be comfy, and toyota has always had great seats. i still need to drive them all, and convince my wife that a truck is a great family purchase!

gm and dodge are in trouble in ontario anyway - i could lease a new gm or dodge quad cab 4x4 for 315 or 345 a month respectively - that's half of what a normal lease would be - crazy.

as far as the arguement about where the money goes, lets look at a smaller picture here, half the stuff we buy comes from japan already, but its our local retailer who we buy from and it's those people who we need to support. they employ people, support the local ecomony and pay taxes for the betterment of the community which we live. any large company hasn't done a thing for my town and never will, however the small businesses in this town are continually supporting the community.

[99malibu]

I HAVE OWNED A '06 TACOMA DOUBLE CAB 4X4 FOR CLOSE TO A YEAR NOW, ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS TRUCK CLOSE TO 20MPG CITY, VERY SNAPPY TRUCK , QUIET CAB, PULLS MY '05 2100 LIKE IT WASN'T EVEN BACK THERE,

I HAVE BEEN A GM MAN ALL MY LIFE, BUT ALSO BEEN A AUTO TECH FOR THE LAST 23 YEARS, AND I HAVE SEEN MORE PROBLEMS WITH THE BIG THREE IN REPAIRS THEN EVER IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, WHEN THEY ARE JUST OUT OF WARRENTY (THAT IS WHEN IT GETS EXPENSIVE FOR THE CONSUMER). THE REASON I SWITCHED (OTHER THEN I HAVE ALWAYS LIKED THE TOYOTAS) IS THE LEAST VEHICLE IN OUR SHOP FOR REPAIR IS THE TOYOTAS (9 BAY SHOP) SO THE LESS YOU VISIT ME THE LESS IT COST YOU , THE MORE YOUR ON THE ROAD ENJOYING YOUR VEHICLE.

THIS DID NOT GO OVER WELL WITH MY WIFES RELATIVES AS THEY OWN TWO GM DEALERSHIPS AND A FORD DEALERSHIP, I TOLD THEM IF THEY BUY ONE FOR ME TO DRIVE , I'LL DRIVE IT, BUT WHEN I'M MAKING THE PAYMENTS I WILL DRIVE WHAT I WANT, AND AFTER A YEAR I WOULDN'T GO BACK

[Eaglenva]

I've always been a ford man but recognize chevy as a good product also, my dad was a dodgie with the cummins turbo diesel. I am also considering the Toyota Tundra 5.7 - as to who makes what is almost a moot point now a'days... for example my 86 full size ford bronco tranny went bad, the shop said good and bad news, the part is $10 but the kit to convert is is $600. oh, did i mention is was a mitsubishi (sp) tranny in a full size bronco. The mazda a girlfriend i had was using the ford c4 trans, most parts are made in other countries and then "assembled" in america which is a claim after a certain % is reached such as at least 80% assembled here.

I agree that our money needs to stay here in america more than ever now but with the global economy our representatives have fostered, we would not last 6 months if we only used 100% american, you could not find enough to survive. gas, oil, food, clothes, shoes, vehicles, even stuff made here is with parts from other countries - not here.


If american companies cared so would I. Our CEO earned a 10% raise ($95,000) which put him at the $994,000 mark but gave us an average of 2.5% His bonus $4 million, ours - we did not get it because we did not hit the right number in sales. I guess his numbers were different. The american system is broken and abused.

Toyota is made in Tennessee good enough for me.

[BullittBen]

I do directly connect a lot of this to political issues. Taxing the fool out of American companies (Democrats), but then allowing imports with minimal tariffs (President Bush - for some reason) is going to encourage foreign manufacturing.

Also, I think unions are screwing the American Automotive industry. They don't care about the company, only about getting more benefits for less work. They're driving the companies out of business. The unemployment rate is at an all time low. If you don't like your job, then go find another one. Don't force a company to give you more money. After that happens over and over again for 50 years, the companies have trouble making money but I personally have dealt with a number of retired Ford factory workers who are moving to Myrtle Beach building beach houses. I can't afford that, but I guess that union got them a lot of money and a healthy retirement.

That's probably why GM is manufacturing in Canada and Mexico. My GMC was made in Canada.

Again, let me stress that I'm sure the Toyota is a good truck, but not superior to everything else if you compare it to an equal truck. Everyone will always have preferences about which truck they like best.

[harleyherb]

BullittBen, I hate to disagree with you, but my latest Chevy truck was a 2002 HD2500 with the electronic transmission and 6.0 liter engine. I had 97,000 miles on it and never got more than 14mpg. In April I went to Gatlinburg hauling my 16' trailer with 3 motorcycles on it and twice I felt the transmission slip. The Chevy truck i had before this one was a 2000 1500 with the standard transmission and the 5.4 V8, at 60,000 miles the transmission started slipping at several occassions. Also on the fact of supporting foreign trucks and worrying about where the profit goes, I worry more about where the labor wages go. Right now the most American vehicle is the Toyota Camry. I feel that NAFTA will be the down-falling of American labor, not unions. Who will be able to afford new boats and new vehicles, if we are all making $5.00 to $7.00 an hour? If the big cooporations are saving so much by sending the labor overseas, why aren't the prices lower to comsumers?

[Trevor Wolf]

I work at a dealership at night where we sell all brands. The new toyota truck is very nice, but is by far not superior to the big 3. First off, they are the fastest truck 0-60 and in the quarter mile. Also, they are the fastest 0-60 and in the quarter mile towing a 5,000 pound load, Not by much, we are talking tenths of a second. One interesting fact is that the Hemi ram 1500 and the new Silverado 1500 6.0 both outpull the tundra and titan up hull by at at least 10 mph. That is the most important fact for me. I tow a 4 place snowmobile trailer, a 21' pulsare, a 28' 8700lb powerquest, and a skidloader trailer with my 2500 ram hemi and have never had a complaint. Towing all of those trailers the only time I will ever loose speed up hill is if I am in a 25mph head wind -5mph at most before a downshift. (Thats only towing the powerquest and snowmobile trailer). Also the titan was surposed to be a far superior truck to the big 3. Look at consumer reports worst bets list. There is the Titan. I had a guy trade in a 2004 Ford F-150 5.4 for the new tundra, he came back 2 days later and paid us $1,000 to get his ford back. Also there marketing is wacked. There commercial with the see saw says how would you like to pull 10,000lb up a hill and then stop it going down. Read the fine print. It says 5,000lb truck plus 5,000lb trailer equals 10,000lb. It also says trailer equiped with electric brakes. A ford pinto could stop a trailer on an incline with good electric brakes. Just for the record, since 2004 toyota now supports our service department with the most issues per every 3 vehicles sold. I am and always will be a dodge fan I have owned 4 all exceeding the 200,000 mile mark with normal maintenance. 2 of those rams are still in the family today with over 250,000. Thats more than I can say for my mothers 1999 Lexus GS300 with 85,000 miles which is in need of a new engine, starter, and brakes every 15,000 miles. Stay with the big 3 They are still american trucks, wether they are built here, canada, mexico they are american. And the profits do go overseas to toyota wether you believe it or not. Just my 2 cents. Every brand has strengths and weaknesses. No brand is far SUPERIOR, or everyone would be out of buisiness. Did you know the HEMI is rated one of the top 10 most durable engines. Toyotas V8 isnt on that list.

P.S. Toyota has issued more recalls than any other company to date.
-Look up the old tundra online and check out the tranny recalls and tsb's and also the major ball joint falure.

[sawcat]

I'm feeling pretty guilty today. One of my best buds was really hot after a new Dodge 4 door 4X4 with the new diesel in the 2500 chassis. He's been a 'Dodge boy' for decades. He went to his dodge dealer twice to drive the truck. Everyone knows the Cummings diesel is a superior engine, with a 6-speed auto, surrounded by an average truck. He was hours from buying it.

They were still working on pricing when he called me about something unrelated and I mentioned, JUST FOR COMPARISON, that he should go drive the new Tundra Double Cab TRD 4X4 with the 5.7 V8 and 6 speed auto option. I was interested to see what a dedicated diesel Dodge boy would think of the comparison between a 2500 Dodge Cummings 4X4 with the new big engine compared to the new Toyota Tundra with the new big engine. He called me about 3 hours later, just finishing paperwork on the new Tundra............... :o

Sure hope your Buddy doesn't think that Toyota will out tow that Cummins.

I pulled my Toyota loving Father in law backwards and I put 6x6 in front of all four wheels of my Dodge & that's with the stock 5.9 2003

[JW]

I talked to him about it at work today. He only needs the 10,000 lb towing capacity (5,000 lb boat) and he's sick and tired of turning wrenches on the Dodge and Ford he previously owned. Another big reason was the 2500 Dodge sat too high for his wife, the Toyota was easier to get in and out of. He doesn't like running boards. I think mostly it was the wife :o

[sawcat]

I talked to him about it at work today. He only needs the 10,000 lb towing capacity (5,000 lb boat) and he's sick and tired of turning wrenches on the Dodge and Ford he previously owned. Another big reason was the 2500 Dodge sat too high for his wife, the Toyota was easier to get in and out of. He doesn't like running boards. I think mostly it was the wife :o

You must be a pretty good guy JW :bigthumb: I thought I was gonna catch it.

[JW]

Truth is I really do feel guilty for turning him on to the truck. And he feels a little guilty buying one, EXCEPT it was made right here in the midwest a couple hundred miles from where we work in Princeton Indiana. So he supported several hundred or more hourly midwest workers paying taxes and buying groceries near us. AND it really is a nice truck :drool:

My '06 Tundra double cab TRD 4X4 is in my driveway because it had a fantastic lease deal. Can't beat $239 a month with $1500 down for a $32,000 vehicle. I leased it 18 months ago to 'get me by' until '09. 18 months to go. I was hoping by the end of the lease there would finally be a truck that can get 25 mpg highway and still tow at least 5,000 lbs reliably and safely. Be it Honda, Toyota, Chevy, Dodge, Ford doesn't matter. What will matter will be resale value, quality, gas mileage, and fit (I'm 6' 4").

I think that if Chevy can put the 6 speed auto behind the 5.3 in '09 in the 1500 Z71 chassis, and give it multi-displacement and some other small improvements, it might just be possible. Chevy is pretty much the gas mileage king so far. I want 25 mpg!!!! Even the V6 Honda can't get that. The other thing that might happen is Toyota likes to do a 'lease pull-ahead' and might temp me with a new TRD 5.7 double cab 4X4 with a low lease deal..................:eyecrazy:

[BullittBen]

Couple of things to clear up with my position.

The GM 6.0 is strong in a 1/2 ton, but a gas hog in anything. Not the greatest in a 2500, but it would probably run forever also.

I would really be curious to see how a GM Duramax 2500 performed in those speed towing tests that Toyota brags about. I'm 99% sure it would blow it in the weeds for the same sticker price.

The thing about Toyota and American Labor. My point was that the unemployment rate is better than it's ever been in recent history. We could live without them - I can guarantee they're not in it to do us a favor.

Finally, I don't have personal experience with a 2500 before the Allison Transmission. I think some early Allisons had trouble. The transmissions in the GM trucks I've had do slip and clunk occasionally. Mine does something odd once every week or two regardless of if I'm towing or not. If I was towing, and was not used to the truck, it would probably scare me to death. But since I've seen one do it for 200,000 miles and never got worse than a very very occasional thing, never broke and was never serviced at all, I'm not overly concerned. I had a company truck that did it for 100k before I changed jobs. My brothers trucks have done the same stuff. Sometimes they seem to start off in second gear, then shuffle back to first. Sometimes they feel like they slip for a second if you just barely back off the throttle as they are shifting. The only transmission I've heard of breaking was a 2500 with an Allison Transmission. A friend of mine had a Duramax turned up to like 500 - 600hp and 800+ lb/ft torque and it smoked the clutches after he was drag racing it and towing for a living.

[sawcat]

My Cummins gets 17.5 & 22 Highway,but they have priced the Trucks out of reach.

I looked at the new Silverado LTZ 4x4 Z71 & that is one nice Truck.

The Toyota is what everybody seems to like as far as resale.

The Tacoma is a hot resale item.

[BullittBen]

Oh, and when I say once every week or two, that's 2000 miles or so.

[81 enchanter]

i just bought a 08 1500 with the Vortec MAX 6.0 package, pretty fast, quiet, pulls like nothings back there. i will always drive chevys.

buy your foreign trucks just don't drive them on AMERICAN ROADS!!!!

[teamhart2]

Interesting discussion, I really dont know all that much about this stuff. As a diehard Junior fan, nothing would make me happier than to buy a sweet chevy when my old GMC safari dies. Unfortunately Im stuck in grad school for quite a few years yet and I wont be able to afford payments or gas on a full size truck, so Ill be getting a used tacoma. Hopefully by the time I get rid of that to buy a new fullsize the American companies will have caught up in mileage and reliability or at least some american investors will have bought up toyota hahahaha.

Nobodies really getting behind Dodge huh? I always liked the look of the rams, my old man has an older 2500 that pulled pretty good and has lasted a long time, although hes a maniac about maintenance and care.

[175checkmate]

I will stick with my 02 2500 Dodge. Yes it has the gas motor, yes its a V10 and yep it get 14.2 MPG all the time. But dam, it will pull a house.
I looked at the diesel when i was looking at getting the truck. Could not swallow the extra cost. Besides as most of you know I can't leave stuff alone, and i would have build the diesel up and blown the trans.

[175checkmate]

Oh and I am not brand specific by any means. I will own any of the big 3.

Chrysler
Plymouth
Dodge.

:thumb:

[Chris]

I'll stick with my Chevs.

I've heard some of the tailgates on the Toyotas have collapsed with a load on them.

I've heard other "stories" too.

I've had too many Chevs to count and they've been excellent.

[Hemi4Me]

Amen to that my 05' hemi ram is the best vehicle I have ever owned, and I owned all Chevy until I bought it. But when they changed the body style, I had to drive one. Traded my Chevy and never looked back. Great truck, I had no problems problems or recalls. Pulls like a dream but only gets 17mpg on the highway. Oh well, that's the price you pay for power, but, sure feels good to whomp that gas pedal when driving the GA 400 on the way to work.

[cmpulse170]

I owned GM products til 2001 when I bought the Nissan truck, like Chris I've never had a problem with GM. Til this day I don't know why i traded my Silverado extended cab for the Nissan.:confused:

[Redboat]

I just got a used 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser . After years of throwing cash into a 1998 GMC Serria , I got tired of never being able to trust it . One thing after another . The service engine light would come on at the slightest hickup . Never could get the ABS brakes to work even after getting the sensors replaced 4 times at a cost of $300 at a time . The motor leaked antifreeze and oil from day one . Dealer couldn't get it to stop for more than a thousand miles or so .Had the tranny replaced twice , first time was warr. , the second time was cash . Just got tired of the poor quality .
As an ex GM employee , it was a difficult decision to buy a Toyota , but quality counts !
Redboat

[Chris]

Personally I don't buy this better quality arguement.

And how can you compare a ten year old truck with a '07?

Of course a '07 will be like switching to a Cadillac!

If I'm not mistaken the Tundra was recently yanked from the Consumer Reports recommended list. Didn't they just have a call back for tranny issues?

Toyota have been leading the way in call backs.

Personally, I think they're having problems because they're growing too quickly.

The other consideration up here in Cannok-land, is the damn things cost way more than a GM, Ford or Dodge. The financing up here on anything import is a frigging joke.

I can lease a fully loaded Chev 1500 with leather a roof etc. for a touch over 500 a month with zip down. The Tundra is probably 7 or 8 hundred a month. 2-3 hundred bucks a month sure buys a lot of repairs. Repairs I've personally never had to make on my '94, '96, '98, 02, 04, or ,05. And my '87 C10 still runs like a champ!

So why would I be tempted to pay extra bucks up front and a high lease or interest rate to get a Toyota?

[Redboat]

Bought the GMC pickup new . The troubles started as soon as the warr. was up . Maybe it was just a lemon .
In the almost 40 years of ownership , I've owned Fords , Buicks , Dodges , GMC's and Toyotas .
Redboat

[Chris]

I've had tons and rarely had a warranty claim.

I've never blown an engine, tranny, diff or anything big.

I think the worst claim I had was for a bad intrument cluster on my 98 Silverado. Basically the speedo wouldn't read over 100 KMH.

Other than that, never much of a problem.

Would you guys pay more for a Toyota though?

As I mentioned, up here they're signficantly more no matter what way you buy 'em.

[Redboat]

I got a great deal on the Cruiser , only 13,700 miles . $35,000USD new and I only paid $20,000USD . Went over it with a fine tooth comb and couldn't find any problems .
Redboat

[Chris]

The SUV's to me are a different topic all together.

I have a little more of an opinion on the pickups. :D

Can't ya tell? :rof:

[Redboat]

I'm just thankful I own a CHECKMATE !!!
Redboat

[Dave Dendekker]

I'm just thankful I own a CHECKMATE !!!
Redboat



No Kidding!! I can't believe you guys are still arguing about trucks. I'd love to look in your driveways - probably full of minivans:rof::rof::rof:

[Diplomat82]

Redboat,

The FJ Cruiser is a pretty sweet ride........Love the Incline Meter! Only problems are the windshields. With it being a vertical surface they do not deflict stones, so you get alot more cracks. Last I heard (around Thanksgiving) there was a 4 month wait on a replacement windshield.

[Big Red]

I think its dumb giving 35-40 grand for any truck just to drag a boat around. The only way a new truck can be justified, is for work as a tax right off. And the gas mileage sucks on a Toyota but mine has 253,000 miles on it. And if you lease one your just throwing your money away.

Do we really need that brand new truck or would one with 60-80,000 miles on it work just fine for half the money.

[175checkmate]

I buy them when there 2 years old. Normally puts mileage in the 30-40K range. And the big hit on value has already happened.

[teamhart2]

I'm with you bigred, cant afford a new one and even if I could Im not sure I could swallow the 10 grand loss in retail or whatever it is just from driving it off the lot. It seems like a lot of the problems with the toyotas are on the newer ones since they really manned up the tundra and made the tacoma biggger, Ill be looking for one of the 05 or earlier trucks, they seem to hold up pretty good. I guess some of that recall stuff is because of the growing, but I think its cool that with the new tundras theyve redesigned a lot of stuff..... good old trial and error.

Chris, this speaks to my ignorance a little but Im curious, how is it that you guys get sucker punched with import costs on toyotas but dont get them on the chevs?

[JW]

Probably because the Chevy is made in Canada and the Toyota is built in America ahaahahhahhahahhahhahah

[Chris]

Probably because the Chevy is made in Canada and the Toyota is built in America ahaahahhahhahahhahhahahGuys, not really.

I think part of it was that our dollar was lower than yours. And now both our dollars are more or less even.

Basically, all the imports are more expensive relatively speaking.

[harleyherb]

I acctually own 2 toyota trucks, the new tundra with the 5.7 (I started this thread when I was still using the hondaherb name) that I use for pulling and I also own a '80 model 3/4 ton model that I inhereted from my dad. My dad bought the '80 model new and it has over 200,000 miles on it. When I got the truck, I took it to the local Toyota dealer, only 2 people that work at the dealership knew that Toyota made a 3/4 ton truck back then. Next month I'm planning on using the new truck to pull our 31' toyhauler to Daytona Beach for bike week, I can't wait to see what mileage I get pulling the camper.

[81 enchanter]

Guys, not really.

I think part of it was that our dollar was lower than yours. And now both our dollars are more or less even.

Basically, all the imports are more expensive relatively speaking.

and the quality including interior fit and finish is just garbage, you can also hear every road noise in the turdras, my buddy has one and hates it as do i! why the hell can you get a TRD off road in 2wd?!?!?!?

[JW]

Well fellas, I do appreciate a 'buy american truck over anything just because' attitude, but I speak from experience. I've owned several trucks since 1992, half of them chevy and half of them toyota. While I enjoyed them both about equally, when it comes to quality after the warranty period runs out AND resale value, unfortunately the Toyotas have a better over all history. That's why they maintain a much higher resale value.

My '06 Tundra lease is up in October, and I'm considering another Chevy, so nobody can hate on me for that. I buy what's best for my needs at the time. What am I considering? Believe it or not, one of the lowest rated trucks you can buy right now, the Chevy Colorado crew cab 4X4. Why? Because I know it's a decent truck, has the best gas mileage of all the 4 wheel drive trucks, and can be bought for the least amout of dollars. We'll see, I have several months to decide.

[onthehammer]

OK, Nothing gets me wound up more than this argument. So it's great that these japanese auto manufacturer's bring their auto plants here and supply jobs to us Americans to avoid the insanely ridiculous taxes bringing cars in by boat. Do you really think that they would do this out of the kindness of their hearts? I don't hardly think so! All the profits go back overseas to support what we fought against in World War 2. So by buying their cars we can only be angry with ourselves if it ever comes to needing our auto manufacturers to support us in another war if we need them and they are not there to help us. I know that I love to live in the US in a democracy where you can actually own your own property and not have to work for $40 per week paychecks. Trust me, if Japan had their way we would all live just like they do. Good luck affording our nice boats and using them, because for us average guys that would be a thing of the past. here is an excerpt that all of us should think about when buying Foreign cars.

Food For Thought! This article appeared in the Oakland press (Michigan).

Most of the time, this column takes on a light-hearted attitude. Today, it's a heavy-hearted one.

It's heavy-hearted because I'm both disappointed and worried about the way that so many car buyers are ignoring the products of America's automobile
Manufacturers. Yes, I know all the arguments pro and con. The reasoning for buying from foreign manufacturers abound in letters to the editors and
Columns by auto writers in our newspapers and magazines.

Up front, I should admit that I worked for two U.S. Auto manufacturers in addition to several decades in the newspaper trade. The first was Kaiser-Frazier, back in 1953. I had worked there only six months when they locked the doors of the huge plant in Ypsilanti because of the lack of sales. I later
Had a stint with General Motors that lasted longer. I personally believe that most of the models produced by American car makers are just as good as those
Offered by foreign companies. Many are even better. But besides the fact that I have been completely satisfied with the cars produced by American-based companies, one of my main reasons for never considering the purchase of a foreign vehicle is quite different than most Americans would think about.

Here it is:

Not until I went to work for the Fisher Body Division of GM did I realize what an impact our auto companies had in the defense of our country. I had
Heard of Detroit being called the "Arsenal of Democracy" but really didn't appreciate the meaning of it until I thumbed through the historical files
Of Fisher Body. One of my many jobs was to keep them up to date. Fisher Body was the division that produced the bodies for nearly every GM model since they started in 1908 until the division was merged into other units in 1984.

While the "Arsenal of Democracy" tag wasn't applied until World War II, Fisher Body's involvement started during the first World War. Soon after the U.S. Entered the war in 1917, the Army granted a contract to Fisher Body for the largest order every written in this country for airplanes. Although Fisher Body had never before made a single airplane, it produced the first one 48 days after taking over a government-owned building near downtown Detroit (later used to assemble Cadillac car bodies). It eventually reached 40 a day. By the time the war for the U.S. Ended, the plant had assembled 2,005 planes.

Within months after Pearl Harbor, Detroit's auto industry shut down its assembly lines and converted to the tools of war. Ford Motor was soon turning out
Such items as aircraft and tank engines and gun mounts. It was most famous for its vast Willow Run plant where 8,685 B-24 bombers were produced.

Chrysler converted its assembly lines to tanks, Army trucks, anti-aircraft guns and assemblies for B-25 medium bombers. Detroit's Hudson plant made sub-assemblies for the B-29 bomber and marine engines. Packard produced engines for fighter planes and PT boats. The hundreds of automotive supplier plants all became involved.

I don't have a record of the items produced by the score of other General Motors divisions but I discovered that its Fisher Body Division alone
Contributed a remarkable assortment of material to the war effort. Twelve Fisher plants were assigned for use by other GM divisions and other companies such as Boeing and Firestone. The remaining 13 plants, mostly in Michigan, tallied up production numbers such as these:

Aircraft assemblies, such as wings and tail sections, were produced for 5,214 Mitchell B-25 bombers.

In Grand Blanc, 17,213 tanks rolled off the assembly line, most of them the famous General Sherman.

Over in the Grand Rapids plant, the assembly line produced 2,359 anti-aircraft guns and later 550 huge 5-inch guns for the Navy's ships. They also shipped out over a half million high-explosive 55mm shell casings, plus aircraft and tank components.

In plants of the Ternstedt Division of Fisher Body, a total of 293,100 intricate gyro aircraft instruments were manufactured. The division also produced
1.2 million parts used in fighter plane cannons.

Five Fisher east coast plants were merged into the GM Eastern Aircraft Division and was the source of three-quarters of the nearly 18,000 Wildcat and
Avenger planes produced for the Navy carriers.

In Cleveland, a 400 acre plant was built for assembly of wings, tail sections, ailerons, flaps, tail gun turrets and other parts for the huge B-29 bombers as well as parts for tanks and Naval guns.

Also pouring out of these facilities, along with plants in Flint, Lansing, Detroit and Pontiac, were such items as 200,000 rocket fins, 86,000 droppable
Fuel tanks, 1,500 cowlings for Navy fighters and 9,352 huge crankcases for diesel engines to power Navy ships and submarines.

Today, dozens of auto plants are closing. So are hundreds of automotive supplier plants. One can only wonder how we could ever gear up to fill
wartime production should the need ever arise.

Just what would we do, call up Japan, Germany, China, Korea or our beloved friends in France?

All of this wartime production stuff may sound boring and trivial to most Americans now, but back in the 1940's it was a life and death matter for our
troops and for the defense of our country. Back then, when I was among the millions of GI's serving overseas, I had no idea of how vital the efforts were of our auto plants and the men and women working there in achieving final victory.
Today I do.

You can call me a sentimental old geezer still living in the past, but I'll just keep on buying and loving the cars that best support our country's economy
today and played a huge role in keeping it free over 60 years ago.

Oh yes, during those war years, 14,761 Fisher body employees left their jobs and families to serve in the armed forces. And 288 gave their lives to keep us free today.

Buy American!

[teamhart2]

thats some cool history onthehammer, thanks for sharing.

unfortunately I think its prolly too late for something like that to happen again, the detooling of american industry happened a long time before any of us (definitely me) started buying foreign cars. While I am sure that foreign builders with factories in the US arent doing it to do us any favors, Im not gonna stand up and act like the american auto industry is doing too many favors for us either, flint michigan became a wasteland because factories were moved out of the country where labor was cheap. Bottom line is this: since we dont have the infrastructure to support something like a WWII we have to count on our politicians to keep us (read: the world) out of something like that, and if it does happen, thank our lucky stars for all the government contractor companies and hope that their work to give us the most technological military equipment in the world will overcome the deficit in industry to support a war effort. Have a few buddies that work for lockheed, some of the stuff they got going on over there will save a lot more of our freedom with a lot less casualties than those old planes and tanks.

Not a military analyst or an economist, but a few thoughts Ive had on the topic. Let me know what ya think:cheers

[cmpulse170]

The writer didn't mention anything about the government taxing the heck out the auto industry and the unions driving them out of business ,no wonder all the jobs are going overseas. I have nothing against the unions but they are not for the people like it used to be back in the day.

[onthehammer]

I agree with you on the unions these days, however they did bring us the weekend we enjoy today!

[cmpulse170]

I agree with you on the unions these days, however they did bring us the weekend we enjoy today!
Oops i forgot to mention that. The unions just got a little to greedy, among other problems. The problem is that you can't blame it on one thing alone. That was a good article though.

[ezstriper]

Does not matter where they are built....just follow the $$$$, believe me toyota does not do much for this country, they are the most underhanded company out there, they buy their way everywhere, payoff's everywhere, bought their way into nascar, paid off media on their numerous recalls that you never hear about, altough have heard some dropping that. toyota's built here in non union plants that pay far less than the big 3 here. I know also that the unions are driving the plants out of the country due to labor cost, but even that does bring the $$ back to this country, not f#%king japan !!!

[JW]

I wonder what helps us the most though. The hundreds of employees bringing home good paychecks at the Toyota plant in Princeton Indiana supporting the local economy, or just the profit check going into a few rich people pockets in Detroit from the trucks built in Mexico (like the Avalanche I had).

Profit to a few rich stockholders from an Avalanche built in Mexico?

Wages to several hundred employees in Princeton Indiana supporting the local economy?

I'll bet the wages paid to Americans add up to more than the profit going into rich guys pockets.

[ezstriper]

If you look at the big picture....you have any idea what would happen to our struggling economy if one of the big 3 went out and closed ??? just think about that..the shockwaves would be bad..and yes dodge is now owned by american's now. One of the big + with toyota has been resale....because they used to build very reliable vehicles, I agree totally, well except they would literlly rust in half frame included, so the preception is they are still that way..but talk to owners and do invesigating on recalls and problems...they now lead the industry with reliablty problems.....the general public just has yet to notice !!!!! also they are among the worse when comes to fuel economy as well...I have a specialty shop that does work on all of them and have driven them all....I will admit the performance of the 5.7 tundra is real good....but the overall truck....the gm's and the fords areoverall better packages with the dodges right with them as well.

[senator-holland]

You can call me a sentimental old geezer still living in the past, but I'll just keep on buying and loving the cars that best support our country's economy
today and played a huge role in keeping it free over 60 years ago.

Oh yes, during those war years, 14,761 Fisher body employees left their jobs and families to serve in the armed forces. And 288 gave their lives to keep us free today.

[/SIZE][/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/B]Buy American!
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i think that the dollar will fall as a standard curruncy. and that oil will go paid in euro's.

if that happens the big trucks industry in the us is history.

you can't compete with chinese industry workers who get 100 dollar in the week.