Finally bought a Starliner.

[atc250r]

Here you go:

http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23711

John

 

[Instigator]

Here you go:

http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23711

John

Awesome. Thanks John.

Spent yesterday doing chores and learned/improved a lot!

Knew the powerhead needed a base gasket from day one so pulled it yesterday to r/r the gasket.
While the p.head was off, I installed the nipple for my new water pressure gauge.
Also popped the flywheel off to replace the old stator which is overheating and melting the potting which ran down on to the timer base and locked it in place.
So basically I've been bashing a 23 yr old motor with locked timing that was still able to plane w/6 adults aboard and run 50 MPH!
This is an example of the difference between HP's and Ft.Lb's
Check the picture and you can see for far the timer is locked from it's stop

I also dropped the motor 1/2" and while doing that and I found enough slop in the jack plate that w/the clamp bolts loose I was able to lift the motor forward and re-torque the bolts holding it in that position. That will give me the 3+*'s of up trim that I'm missing from the newer motors. Draw back will be losing it from the negative side.

I have a spare stator and had planned to go testing this morning but forgot the early era loopers use different stators.
Will order a new one Monday.

Another nice surprise was how clean this thing was internally.
Am used to the corroded up junk from down south so this was a special treat.
The bottom of the block and lower bearing carrier would pass as new!
Even the tiny, allen head plug in the adaptor plate came right out for nipple for the pressure gauge.

This motor will be fun to sell.

Here's some pix's of yesterdays chores.

 

[Instigator]

Couple ,more pix's.



One of the bas gasket.

 

[saxmanbrad]

Instigator, love following your threads. Really enjoyed the twin Sonic thread over at S&F. I always keep my eye out for those hulls, but they seem to be far and few between. I love the idea of running a big honkin' V8 on your current boat as well! Have you seen this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171492071174?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

3.6XP never fired? Probably too good to be true, but that's a rare motor.

 

[Instigator]

Instigator, love following your threads. Really enjoyed the twin Sonic thread over at S&F. I always keep my eye out for those hulls, but they seem to be far and few between. I love the idea of running a big honkin' V8 on your current boat as well! Have you seen this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171492071174?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

3.6XP never fired? Probably too good to be true, but that's a rare motor.

Thnx Sax
I do very little of that over on S/F due to the current smart ass, non appreciative membership. I get tech questions almost weekly and for the last few yrs it seems 1/2 don't even reply after I answer their questions.
Who does this make sense to?

The intent for this boat from day 1 was a V-8. Bought one just before leaving Fla but it ended up being a turd and got my money back.
If I don't burn out on it before getting through the 3.3, I'll build one.
A work bench V-8 is on my to do list but if it makes onto the Starliner remains to be seen.

Glad you enjoyed the stories and thanks again.

BTW, there is a 24' Sonic on e-bay right now for $14K and on it's 3rd lap w/0 bids. About twice what it's worth and probably what it will sell for in January ;

 

[JUPITER PULSARE]

Tried to get some pictures of the step and hull bottom today. The step runs from the outer chine to the 1st lifting strike and then from the lifting strike through the keel but much shallower. The lifting strike width is also reduced towards the transom. You can also see the almost pad like raised "V" keel.

 

[Instigator]

Tried to get some pictures of the step and hull bottom today.

Yep, same bottom as mine.

Going testing today.
Weather was gorgeous yesterday (mid 70's) but I spent all day thrashing.
Installed the new stator and rectifier and it appears the motor has been running on the battery the whole time as I suspected.
Also disassembled and cleaned the idle timing linkage that was gummed up from the funk that melted off the stator which cause the motor to die at idle.

Cleaned the lower pans while they were off too and I am again shocked at how clean this motor is. Other than the L/U, this thing would shine like new w/a coat of wax.
Now I'm anxious to see how good it run's now that the motor is getting proper timing.

Also cut the weed cutters off my 24" Chopper and drilled it for the Johnrude.

Refinished the ski locker lid too.

So today (high of 50) I head back to the lake w/a healthy motor, a **** pile more up trim, 1/2" less motor height, a 24" Chopper, 24" Raker and 23" Tempest.
Best so far is 63, indicated. If I see decent improvement today, I may actually get up the courage to fire up the GPS and see what the thing is really running

Next/final chapter for this set up will be the addition of the 2" spacers on the jack plate.
Next weekend we are doing the final Buckeye Lake bar tour by boat and then the 3.3 goes on.
I have everything I need to do the hydraulic steering conversion to allow the additional 10" set back of the 2nd jack plate and I can't wait to get started!!

 

[JUPITER PULSARE]

Yep, same bottom as mine.

Going testing today.
Weather was gorgeous yesterday (mid 70's) but I spent all day thrashing.
Installed the new stator and rectifier and it appears the motor has been running on the battery the whole time as I suspected.
Also disassembled and cleaned the idle timing linkage that was gummed up from the funk that melted off the stator which cause the motor to die at idle.

Cleaned the lower pans while they were off too and I am again shocked at how clean this motor is. Other than the L/U, this thing would shine like new w/a coat of wax.
Now I'm anxious to see how good it run's now that the motor is getting proper timing.

Also cut the weed cutters off my 24" Chopper and drilled it for the Johnrude.

Refinished the ski locker lid too.

So today (high of 50) I head back to the lake w/a healthy motor, a **** pile more up trim, 1/2" less motor height, a 24" Chopper, 24" Raker and 23" Tempest.
Best so far is 63, indicated. If I see decent improvement today, I may actually get up the courage to fire up the GPS and see what the thing is really running

Next/final chapter for this set up will be the addition of the 2" spacers on the jack plate.
Next weekend we are doing the final Buckeye Lake bar tour by boat and then the 3.3 goes on.
I have everything I need to do the hydraulic steering conversion to allow the additional 10" set back of the 2nd jack plate and I can't wait to get started!!

Sounds like you're in for a day of fun! You should download a speed app on your phone for $hi+s and giggles..with the motor running the way it should you may be pleasantly surprised at the speed!! I'm anxious to get my Starflite on the water...so, I'll be turning wrenches again this monday on the 250XB...

 

[Instigator]

Making headway....

Ran all 3 props today in weather varying from 55 and gorgeous to 45, raining and brutal (welcome back to Ohio cracker boy!).

Bad news was first time going on plane I heard a bang which was the jack plate tilting itself back in so I lost my new and improved up trim.
I will re-adjust it and then pin it in place for next time.(tomorrow??)

One bonus was the new stator also fixed my previously non functioning tach (also as I hoped).

Here are results for the day.

Test #1.
23" Tempest.
Even down a 1/2" it still slipped bad coming on plane.
But I saw 64 (indicated) @ 5K and 60.2 GPS. (the speedo was closer than I was afraid of)
I like this prop but evidently has enough meat that I'd need to go down 2 more inches to get there.

Test #2.
24" Chopper.
Spun hard coming on plane but saw 65 @ 5500, 61.3 GPS. (Now I'm thinking my tach may be accurate after all)
This test the weather sucked! Was blowing hard which made it rough.
I think there's 1 or 2 more there in optimum conditions.

Test #3.
24" Raker.
This one blew me away. I knew how good the Rakers were but didn't expect this.
0 slip coming on plane, 64 @ 5400 and 62.1 GPS which means this wheel was faster than the Chopper!

Another interesting tid bit was with the weather what it was, I drove part of the time tucked in behind the windshield and in shelter of the shore line (from the wind) and on one run when I was (again) thinking what a pig this thing is, right at 61 you could feel the hull release and take off.
So although theres no pad on this boat (yet) it definitely climbs on the final vee on the bottom of the keel and is ( I am convinced) the key to get these things to run.

 

[atc250r]

Sounds familiar Gary. That Raker ran 63 on gps for me and it was faster than the chopper I had. I agree around mid 60s that hull frees up and you can pick up a lot more mph than you should going from a 200 to a 250+.

 

[Instigator]

So, after yesterday I felt motivated.

Today I raised the motor back up the 1/2 I dropped it (since the Raker didn't slip). Re-aligned and pinned the jack plate, installed my 2" spacers and headed back to the ramp.

Was rewarded w/a 66 @ 5700 ANNNDDD 65.7 GPS.

Not bad considering this boat ran 59 when I bought it. So I've picked up 7 MPH's w/set up and props only. Not bad.

As is the boat has 8" of set back and is creaming for more. Today it felt the best, lightest and freeist.

 

[Instigator]

Here it is w/the 2" spacers installed.
Note that the motor is at full "trim" in this shot. This is after I realigned the plate and bolted it in place.
The difference in how this boat feels at 62 and above is amazing. Feels just like a light, fast, pad bottom vee when it climbs up on the pad.
Until this weekend I thought I made a mistake buying this boat. As in, in orig. condition it was not near the boat to drive that I remembered.
Now I can't wait to try something else and head back to the ramp.
If I was going to keep this motor on it (in stock form) I think I'd drop to a 22" Raker and get the R's up. Would probably run identical top speeds but would do everything else better.
Especially hauling friends and skiers. Can't even remember tha last ski boat I had.
I know this one will have a steep wake for hard core slalom skiing (my thing)but I still have my HO Mach One ski and I love that thing.

If I pulled the baffles out of the air box (and re-jetted accordingly) and installed the old 2.7 liter heads I think could get 70 out of it.

Anyone know what the good running Liners are running??? Seems as most are in the mid 60's??
Anyone run one w/a 300X or Xs before??

I will guess mid 70's w/my 3.3 next Spring. (or sooner)

Thanks guys. Fun having a project that excites me again.
Been a while

 

[atc250r]

Congrats on the progress Gary. I believe ckaluger had a 250xs and was running up around 76. My 250 EFI pushed mine to 72 with just 5.5 inches of set back with a 24 Trophy and tickling the limiter. I put a 300 ignition box, a 4 butterfly intake, and a set of reeds in and picked up about 300 rpm with no prop changes. I should be around 74 or 75 but haven't had a day to go out and see what the GPS says. I'm going to try a 26 Chopper again (boat liked the last one I tried) and I'd like to add a set of 4 inch spacers to the jackplate I already have. If. Think ATC that point I'll be right around where I'll need lwpu and a cone if I want to go any faster. As it sits it's a great do everything not that will plane with 6 people on board and still run 70 with 2 in it. Sim had his running very well with his 225 EFI but he never had it propped quite right for all out top end.

John

 

[Instigator]

Congrats on the progress Gary. I believe ckaluger had a 250xs and was running up around 76. My 250 EFI pushed mine to 72 with just 5.5 inches of set back with a 24 Trophy and tickling the limiter. I put a 300 ignition box, a 4 butterfly intake, and a set of reeds in and picked up about 300 rpm with no prop changes. I should be around 74 or 75 but haven't had a day to go out and see what the GPS says. I'm going to try a 26 Chopper again (boat liked the last one I tried) and I'd like to add a set of 4 inch spacers to the jackplate I already have. If. Think ATC that point I'll be right around where I'll need lwpu and a cone if I want to go any faster. As it sits it's a great do everything not that will plane with 6 people on board and still run 70 with 2 in it. Sim had his running very well with his 225 EFI but he never had it propped quite right for all out top end.

John

Thanks for the info John.
I looked and I have enough slop in all the cables to go back 2 more inches which means I could pull off what's on there and install the hydraulic 10" that I have.
I hate doing that w/o reinforcing the transom though. Our demo with the V-8 cracked before we even sold the damn thing! I don't remember it having the metal reinforcing plates that this one has though.
I'll order resin today and maybe be ready to make my knees next.

Once passed next weekend though, it comes down regardless.

BTW, I ran the current set up through the prop calculator and came up with 4.6% so I don't see much room for improvement there.

Hummmhhhh........

Also, I have a 26" Chopper you can try if you want. It needs cleaned up though so you wouldn't learn much.

 

[atc250r]

Yeah, the only thing stopping me from add a pair of 4 inch brackets from Bob's is the weak excuse for knees from the factory.

 

[Instigator]

My idea for knees is to install them in the splash well.

Ordered resin today. I'll probably start with regular 2" X 4"s and radius the tops so I can wrap them w/glass.
I'll end up w/approximately 1 3/4" of meat across the bottom of them to bond to the front of the motor board and then down across the bottom of the splash well.
I've done a ton w/milled fibers and Cabosil and done right, everything else will brake first.
I'll mock it up first to assure in can be done but assuming so, it will basically be a glue in accessory.
Tape off your 1 3/4" stripes, scuff that area, glue them down and build a nice fillet where it meets the gel and your done.

Waiting to hear on a job that I'm pretty confident about so working like my play days are limited. Almost installed the 10" plate today.

 

[Great East Predictor]

Cool project. What are you going to use for a 10" hydraulic plate? Will you keep the 2" spacers as well?

 

[Instigator]

Cool project. What are you going to use for a 10" hydraulic plate? Will you keep the 2" spacers as well?

Based on how the thing has responded to set back so far....., I'm bolting on everything.
2" spacers bolted to the 6" mechanical, bolted to the 10" hydraulic for a total of 18" of set back.

I start a new job a week from tomorrow so this is my last week of freedom.
Tomorrow I start the re-rig.
Should be done by the weekend but not sure how much farther I'll get and will also depend on what our weather does.

I'm really anal about my motor break in and it's tuning and with maybe 1/2 dozen of these ever being built (in the world), and maybe half succesfully I will be taking my time.

Shall we begin?

 

[Instigator]

Mocked it up today.

18 1/4" of set back, 4" of up/down w/a button.

Down, prop shaft is 4" bellow. Up, it is even.
The motor is now far enough back to delete the splash well and build a bracket/platform/sun lounge.

Down, I'm OK with. Up, I think it will come off the motor board and kill me.

#1 is down, and #2 is up. If someone can turn the picture (2) for me, please do. It is correct on my puter.

 

[Great East Predictor]

That is some serious setback. How much hp does that motor make?