Would really appreciate opinions on props

[Diplomat82]

Looking to upgrade my prop for handling. Reading the forum it looks like people really like the 4 blade props instead of the 3 blades.
I'm currently running a Tempest Plus (48-825862 21P) 3 blade prop and was curious what people thought about them and what a good upgrade may be.

I really have no clue at all when it comes to props. I'm not even sure this is a good prop to run on this boat.
I understand that I really need to test props but I really do not have that luxury.

I own a 2000 Persuader 218 br with the 350MAG and Bravo 1 drive.

Any input would be welcomed!

 

[JW]

The Laser II was the original bass prop, back when bass boats were small and light. I liked Laser II props on my smaller Checkmates, up to 19 feet. The Tempest (and plus) were the next generation bass boat prop, when boats got a lot heavier and longer and had more power. I loved the Tempest props on my longer outboard Checkmates.
Both those props are high rake bow lifting props.

All that being said, I'm surprised a Tempest is on a 22' boat with a bravo drive. Haven't heard of that combo yet. Definetely time to get together with friends and test different props. I'm sure you'll get a few people chiming in with a setup like yours that'll have some prop advice.

 

[The Rooster]

What do you mean by improving the handling?... not much is going to change with the way your I/O boat "handles" with a prop swap.
Hole shot and top end performance is another story. What are your performance goals? What is your max rpm at wot? A mirage is always a good option on a bravo for top end and generally speaking a 4 blade will improve holeshot.

 

[Diplomat82]

What do you mean by improving the handling?... not much is going to change with the way your I/O boat "handles" with a prop swap.
Hole shot and top end performance is another story. What are your performance goals? What is your max rpm at wot? A mirage is always a good option on a bravo for top end and generally speaking a 4 blade will improve holeshot.

I was reading an old thread about how a 4 blade prop will help with the "Checkmate Bounce". So that is what I meant by "handling".
Not sure on WOT...haven't had the wife out of the boat yet...lol.

I'm pretty uneducated on props, not even sure what diameter or pitch I should go with.

Thanks for your input...I appreciate it.

 

[Diplomat82]

The Laser II was the original bass prop, back when bass boats were small and light. I liked Laser II props on my smaller Checkmates, up to 19 feet. The Tempest (and plus) were the next generation bass boat prop, when boats got a lot heavier and longer and had more power. I loved the Tempest props on my longer outboard Checkmates.
Both those props are high rake bow lifting props.

All that being said, I'm surprised a Tempest is on a 22' boat with a bravo drive. Haven't heard of that combo yet. Definetely time to get together with friends and test different props. I'm sure you'll get a few people chiming in with a setup like yours that'll have some prop advice.

Thanks JW. That's pretty interesting info about the Laser II.
I wish I had some buddies around here I could switch props with. All by boating buddies either have alphas or jet boats.

 

[The Rooster]

Assuming the bounce you're referring to is porpoising.. it's a trait suffered by just about all lightweight sport boats with heavy (large) large power plants. Most performance three blade props create bow lift where four blades will often provide stern lift which will help lessen porpoising. If you can get your hands on a 4 blade like a bravo 1 prop to try you may see an improvement.

 

[Diplomat82]

Assuming the bounce you're referring to is porpoising.. it's a trait suffered by just about all lightweight sport boats with heavy (large) large power plants. Most performance three blade props create bow lift where four blades will often provide stern lift which will help lessen porpoising. If you can get your hands on a 4 blade like a bravo 1 prop to try you may see an improvement.

Will look into a Bravo 1 prop. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Sam I am]

There are a lot of variants on the Bravo I props...here's a thread explaining some it. I love the Bravo I props and have pretty much quit running anything else. I do have a High Five for towing inflatables.


http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32658

 

[Diplomat82]

Well, I just able to get out for a quick run on the boat tonight.
So running with that Tempest Plus prop I was running 52mph at just about 4500rpm.
The tag on the engine says WOT rpm should be between 4500-5000 rpm.
So it looks like I have some room for improvement.

So any suggestion on dia. and pitch, currently 14-5/8" and 21p.

 

[The Rooster]

Somethings not right there.... with a 300hp 5.7 Mag you should be quicker and even over revving that 21p. I'm assuming you're trimming the drive correctly?
I had the same boat with a 5.0 mpi (260hp) and I'm sure I was able to get 60 out of it; it was 10+ years ago so memory is a little foggy

 

[Diplomat82]

Somethings not right there.... with a 300hp 5.7 Mag you should be quicker and even over revving that 21p. I'm assuming you're trimming the drive correctly?
I had the same boat with a 5.0 mpi (260hp) and I'm sure I was able to get 60 out of it; it was 10+ years ago so memory is a little foggy

I'm probably not trimming out correctly. Hopefully this weekend I can find a nice section of the river to run it out on.

 

[Nick616]

Or come down to Lake Macatawa - usually pretty quite from the narrows to Dunton launch ramp - especially in the evenings. Go for a "pickle run" ( the Heinz Pickle plant is on the south side of the lake there ).

Its the most consistent flat area I've found to run WOT.

( You will probably get hit for a launch fee on any of the ramps, unless the big lake is calm enough you can make the short trip down. )

 

[The Rooster]

Trimming your stern drive to max performance is pretty easy;

-Start with trim all the way down
-Once on plane put the throttle all the way down
-Watching your speedo bump your trim up one tap at a time (half a second button push) give it a second to react, watch your speed go up and repeat until you see your speed decrease. You'll find your top speed and max rpms that way.
Same process for an outboard too until you add vertical lift into the equation, which requires a little more trial and error.

 

[Mark]

I would not spend a bunch of money on props if I were you. Borrow and try if you can. Chances are you will see only small changes. I think you are close with that prop. Get by yourself, open her up and trim till it starts to slip and rpm rises w/o speed increase. Lower trim slightly and you have your spot. Then check rpm.
I ran 23p Tempest, 23p Mirage and 22p Fury on my 6.2L w Bravo drive and they were all within 1 mph. If your drive is a 1.5 ratio it will like the small diameter of the Fury. Laser II is too small and 4 blade probably too big for that engine/drive/hull combo. The Tempest does have a lot of rake angle and will be the most inclined to porpoise. However it should work well on that motor and drive and that small hull. My .02

 

[Diplomat82]

I would not spend a bunch of money on props if I were you. Borrow and try if you can. Chances are you will see only small changes. I think you are close with that prop.....

Thanks for the advice! Nick616 borrowed me one of his props to try. This will at least give me an idea of the differences between a 3 and 4 blade prop.

I did contact Checkmate through email and Kip did inform me on which props went out with that boat. Not sure if they are the best fit now a days but at least it is a start. Below is he email response:

Pete, found an old prop chart from time frame model was still in
production.....it says 23 Lazer II ( Merc Prop ) or 22 Turbo ( Precision
Propeller ) and that it should run close to mid 60's. Might want to try
Checkmate owners forum ...link from our site....sure others have same
combination, Kip.

 

[Mark]

Ya, kinda old school props. But try anything you can beg borrow or steal. I made a mistake when i suggested a Fury (smallest pitch is 24p) I meant the Enertia which is it's baby brother. It is a great prop on the 1.5 ratio Bravo drive. Like I said you might find the Tempest is a winner all along.

Here is my prop testing with a 320 HP 6.2L Mercruiser with a 1.65 Bravo drive on a 23' pad bottom hull. All speeds are GPS and rounded to the the nearest 1/2 mph as different runs gave different decimals as the condition changed. The results are as follows:

Props :------------------------20 Enertia-------------22 Enertia-----------21 Vengeance------------21 Mirage (detuned 23)----23 Mirage---------23 Tempest

Holeshot---------------------- Excellent --------------Very Good------------Excellent-------------------Very Good------------------Good--------------Very Good

3000 RPM ---------------------27 mph-----------------30 mph---------------31 mph--------------------33 mph--------------------34 mph--------------34 mph

4000 RPM----------------------39 mph-----------------43 mph---------------42.5 mph------------------44 mph -------------------45 mph--------------45 mph

RPM @ WOT-------------------5,400--------------------5100------------------5200-----------------------5100 -----------------------4800-----------------4950
-----------------------------Hit Rev Limiter
GPS speed WOT---------------55.5-----------------------57.5------------------58-------------------------60---------------------------60-------------------61

I am a little surprised how little difference there is between the props. Some have slightly better holeshot but really none are bad. The Tempest is just slightly faster but it is oddly perceptibly louder. I actually prefer the 23 Mirage out of the bunch for its quiet very smooth ride. It carries a load of people without losing much speed and stays on plane at a very slow 18 mph. The 21 Mirage is good too but slips a bit at high trim because detuning removes some cup. Honestly, other than the 20p Enertia which was too small I would be happy with any of them.

 

[Nick616]

Let me know how the Hydromotive QV4 23P works out. It looks like a 23P should be about right.

If it behaves on your boat like mine, it will be awful getting out of the hole, once on plane it should give you a representative ride - probably won't get the WOT number you are looking for though.

I ordered a 20P SOLAS this morning to try on my boat - it's 1" smaller than the existing, I'm hoping it will give me a little more WOT and hold about the same top end, and should get out of the hole a little easier. Depending on how the QV4 prop runs and how the new one tests on my boat, I may have another prop you can test . . . .

Would have liked to test a Bravo 1 - but the Solas was $300 new . . . I'm happy with the one I have and am not concerned with top end speed. ( I just want to enjoy the boat, go reasonably fast - I don't care if I get the last 2mph out of it - that becomes a very expensive obsession )

 

[Diplomat82]

Wow, thanks guys for the info. Every little bit helps me.

I was able to get back out and test my prop plus Nicks Hydromotive prop.
So the Tempest Plus I was able to get 62 mph at 4900rpm WOT. It also planed the boat in just under 5 seconds.

Nick's Hydrmotive 4 blade prop top out at 59 mph at 4400rpm WOT. It planed out at 6 seconds. The one thing I noticed was that the Hydrmotive actually porpoises more then the Tempest did. But the Hydromotive just seemed like a better ride. It did better in chop and low speed idling.

So I'm not sure where to go from here. Maybe see if I can find a used Bravo 1 and Mirage prop to try.

Also someone told me to try a "High five" prop....thoughts?

 

[JW]

High 5 is a ski prop. Very smooth, very little rake, no bow lift. Not the best prop if you want an all-around prop in most cases. But try one if you can! Every hull is different with the same prop, and every prop is different from every other prop even if they are the same part number.

 

[flyby knight]

You could also try a Mercury offshore/ Vensura 4 blade. Think they run in smaller pitches than the bravos.