450R vs. 2.6L 400R for Pulsare 2400

[Ross300r]

I’m set on a re-power of my 07 2400 Crawl through (Jupiter’s boat and then Trace’s if anyone recalls it). I purchased the boat from Trace with a 300R for power and I undoubtedly do not believe that it lacks power, but I feel as though I would be able to enjoy the extra power and speed.

I ruled out the V10 400R as the 2.6l 400R is very reasonable to buy (i see some listed for way less than I could sell my 300r for). The 400R is obviously the economical choice here at the expense of the old style cowl, which would kill the aesthetic of the boat compared to the 300. We are also slowly upgrading the entire boat into 2023 and I feel that an old design would be going in the wrong direction. I’m also hesitant to choose the 400 over the 450 as it appears (I cant find sources) that someone has powered a 2400 with a 450 and it is quite a bit faster than the 400. This obviously comes at a much bigger cost.

450R’s are entering the used market already after the announcement of the 500r. I genuinely would prefer the 450R but want to confirm that the transom can handle it. How will the extra 150ish pounds hanging off the transom affect planing, handling, etc? I anticipate adding trim tabs and a ballast tank (for rough water only)in the bow if needed.

As a cliff note, I can not find any used 300R’s for sale for pricing reference. What can I reasonably expect to fetch for a 2021 300R with torquemaster and ~160 hours?

Final question- will both of these options bolt directly onto the 300r rigging or will this wind up being far more involved?

Thanks!

Ross

 

[Glenn Kornett]

I’m set on a re-power of my 07 2400 Crawl through (Jupiter’s boat and then Trace’s if anyone recalls it). I purchased the boat from Trace with a 300R for power and I undoubtedly do not believe that it lacks power, but I feel as though I would be able to enjoy the extra power and speed.

I ruled out the V10 400R as the 2.6l 400R is very reasonable to buy (i see some listed for way less than I could sell my 300r for). The 400R is obviously the economical choice here at the expense of the old style cowl, which would kill the aesthetic of the boat compared to the 300. We are also slowly upgrading the entire boat into 2023 and I feel that an old design would be going in the wrong direction. I’m also hesitant to choose the 400 over the 450 as it appears (I cant find sources) that someone has powered a 2400 with a 450 and it is quite a bit faster than the 400. This obviously comes at a much bigger cost.

450R’s are entering the used market already after the announcement of the 500r. I genuinely would prefer the 450R but want to confirm that the transom can handle it. How will the extra 150ish pounds hanging off the transom affect planing, handling, etc? I anticipate adding trim tabs and a ballast tank (for rough water only)in the bow if needed.

As a cliff note, I can not find any used 300R’s for sale for pricing reference. What can I reasonably expect to fetch for a 2021 300R with torquemaster and ~160 hours?

Final question- will both of these options bolt directly onto the 300r rigging or will this wind up being far more involved?

Thanks!

Ross

 

[Glenn Kornett]

I have a 2020 Pulsare 2400 with a 300R (2nd last boat built in Bucyrus and the last long deck). I traded e-mails with Trace for a while as we were both trying to prop our boats. Perhaps I can add some info that might help you.
I think you can compensate for the weight of a 400R 2.6l or a 450R by reducing the setback some. I have 10" of set back on my Atlas plate. I believe my Atlas plate is only rated for 400 HP. I think most of the Verado series had 3 - 4" of built in setback. The Checkmate factory used a 6" setback Atlas plate and added trim tabs if they rigged a 2400 Pulsare with a 400R. With a 300R they used 10" of setback and no trim tabs. I have to use negative trim on mine to keep it from porpoising under 35 mph, so I could understand that trim tabs are required with the higher weight of the 400R and Dean told me if I ordered a 400R it would come equipped with trim tabs, but I don't think JIG has any trim tabs? I think if you had a Sportsmaster lower unit like the 400R and 450R, it will help reduce the chine walking. Dean Reynolds told me that they refinforced the transom and perhaps the transom knees once they started rigging them with 400R's, but I don't know what year Checkmate did that, or if it is really necessary. You can get some good data from Hayabusa and JIG, since they both have 400R's.

 

[Hayabusa]

I don’t think Ross’s 2400 would have any problem handling the weight of a 400R or 450R, I also believe the transom can handle the weight as long as it’s solid and dry, my 2400 BRX being a good example, I’ve added a lot of weight to the transom: 2 aluminum boarding platforms, transom backing plates inside and out, Bob’s Extreme 6” Jack plate. She handles very well in all sea conditions and the trim tabs help with fine tuning or slow speed cruising and or balancing the boat, I have a 10 gallon fresh water tank in the back as well and she has no issues getting on plane or staying on plane at very slow speeds, it’s like she could care less how much weight is back there, holeshot is awesome. The 2400 is a very beamy boat for her size and I think that is what makes her handle the weight well. By looking at her at rest you wouldn’t think there was so much weight in the back, 400R: 735lbs, Bob’s: 55lbs?, platforms: 60lbs, backing plate: 70lbs, plus water tank and 10 gallons….. dang that’s a crap load of weight

 

[Ross300r]

I don’t think Ross’s 2400 would have any problem handling the weight of a 400R or 450R, I also believe the transom can handle the weight as long as it’s solid and dry, my 2400 BRX being a good example, I’ve added a lot of weight to the transom: 2 aluminum boarding platforms, transom backing plates inside and out, Bob’s Extreme 6” Jack plate. She handles very well in all sea conditions and the trim tabs help with fine tuning or slow speed cruising and or balancing the boat, I have a 10 gallon fresh water tank in the back as well and she has no issues getting on plane or staying on plane at very slow speeds, it’s like she could care less how much weight is back there, holeshot is awesome. The 2400 is a very beamy boat for her size and I think that is what makes her handle the weight well. By looking at her at rest you wouldn’t think there was so much weight in the back, 400R: 735lbs, Bob’s: 55lbs?, platforms: 60lbs, backing plate: 70lbs, plus water tank and 10 gallons….. dang that’s a crap load of weight View attachment 90307View attachment 90310View attachment 90311View attachment 90312

Thank you for the reply!
I have two batteries in the back and basically nothing else. This boat is very pleasant and easy to drive and I don’t think that moving up to a 400 (as you have demonstrated) or a 450 would turn the boat into a death machine with responsible driving. These boats also just do not go as fast as other similar sized, lighter boats like a Tuff, where a 450 would make the boat go 130mph. I dont imagine that the boat will break much over 90 with a 450 and a good all around prop.

I will definitely add trim tabs with the new motor and I am tossing around the idea of a ballast tank in the bow’s anchor compartment for rougher days as the bow feels too light without tabs or weight up front on rough days.

This boat goes everywhere- the major lakes in the Northeast, the Hudson River alot, and in one year of ownership it has already been towed from NJ to Key West amongst other destinations. I feel that these upgrades would help me suit the boat to the conditions.

 

[jjg]

My 2014 2400 LD was originally rigged with a 300 pro Verado, same motor Jupiter had on Ross’s boat. I upgraded in 2015 to the 400R with the SM gearcase. My transom was already upgraded during the build as shown in the attached pic. The boat handled so much better with the 400 and I really don't see the need for tabs as when you're running not much of that part of the transom is in the water, as you can see from the pic. I would also not see a need for a ballast tank because weight affecting the CG is also not an issue. I have a 6” atlas JP and have zero issues at any speed with porpoising or any other issue for that matter. The boat handles like a dream and is fast and agile for its size. If youre looking for a value on your 300R check NADA, they have values for OB motors. Hope this info helps. Feel free to reach out with anymore questions.

 

[Ross300r]

My 2014 2400 LD was originally rigged with a 300 pro Verado, same motor Jupiter had on Ross’s boat. I upgraded in 2015 to the 400R with the SM gearcase. My transom was already upgraded during the build as shown in the attached pic. The boat handled so much better with the 400 and I really don't see the need for tabs as when you're running not much of that part of the transom is in the water, as you can see from the pic. I would also not see a need for a ballast tank because weight affecting the CG is also not an issue. I have a 6” atlas JP and have zero issues at any speed with porpoising or any other issue for that matter. The boat handles like a dream and is fast and agile for its size. If youre looking for a value on your 300R check NADA, they have values for OB motors. Hope this info helps. Feel free to reach out with anymore questions.

Thanks for the reply!
My 300R is listed for sale and what I wind up choosing as a replacement will depend on what is available on the used market. I’m going to price out a V10 400R but I believe that i’ll be able to find a 450R used for cheaper than that.

 

[Glenn Kornett]

I think a V10 400R starts with an MRSP around $46 with a 3 yr warranty, versus closer to 60K or more for a 450R. Maybe you could get the V10 for $42K with a dealer discount?? I think it has a larger diameter lower unit (and prop shaft!!) so that might slow it down slightly, unless it is a Sportsmaster type that can be surfaced, but I am only guessing at that from the little I read. Has your transom been reinforced? I didn't think Checkmate did that on the 2009 model year but again I don't know. Either way, 450R or 500R it will be an awesome ride!! Good Luck and stay safe.

 

[Hayabusa]

Jacos has a 450R for $49950, the 500R is the one that has the almost 6” diameter gearcase and the 1.5” prop shaft, the V10 400 still uses the 5.44 gear case 1” shaft like the I6 400R and 450R. I like the 450R because it’s the last of lightest of the high horse power motors, the I6 400R and the V10 400 weigh more than the 450R. I don’t think we’ll be seeing a lot of owners of 450R’s yet dumping their 450’s for 500R’s. Too bad Merc is discontinuing the 450R, now more than ever Mercury is building big horse power geared for the big center consoles, large fast cats or high speed large mono hulls. I don’t think the 500R will work well on smaller boats like our 2400’s or smaller 22’s like the Liberator's, we’ll see maybe someone out there will try. If you see a used 450R in good shape…. Jump on it.

 

[jumbofordman]

I saw some brand new wrapped single outboard 21' or so speedboat (I wasn't able to see the brand) being towed out of my home town of Washington, NC when I was on my way to work yesterday. It had a 450 Merc on it.

 

[jjjrick]

Little late to the party here but thought I’d chime in. I deal a lot with the big Merc’s. Done about a dozen 400r or 450 to 500 repowers. And a similar number of V10 repowers. But no experience with the V10-R (Which runs 450 lower units).

500 makes a TON of power. They’ve proven fairly reliable too (keep in mind it’s still a 500hp supercharged engine, not a ‘03 Camry… it’s not going to magically run forever without some wrenching). On the semi surfacing application a few people have noticed decreased performance or sometimes cavitation due to the larger diameter. On the SM surfing boats, water pressure is much easier to hold than the 450, and the engine pulls hard. The extra rpm range allows for more holeshot. They’re expensive though! You need a 500-specific steering cylinder, new prop hub, or a new 500 cut cleaver, as well as the addition of a rigging center on your boat, and it’s associated new harnesses and labor. Your boat is small enough you can reuse some of the old 14pin harnesses. But in applications greater than something like 20ft wire runs, mercury wants the new Low Loss data harnesses installed.

I’d consider 450. It’s the best speed for the money. You can buy one for peanuts right now with a full warranty! Call any performance boat builder in FL… they all have them left over still… call TNT Marine… they’ve got some too.

400R’s can still be found new, but it’s getting tougher. Again, just call around. Lots of people in FL have left over stock. This is hands down the most reliable engine. 2000hr isn’t uncommon. I’ve seen 4-5k hours in 350hp fishing boat applications. A 450 is usually toast by 1200, or has at least gone thought a powerhead or 2.

Also note 450 & 500 require 1/2” fuel hose throughout. And they have a much bigger alternator, which is great for hosue battery loads on modern boats. But bad if you have one of the tiny blue charge isolators installed: it will need to be upgraded as well

 

[jjg]

Little late to the party here but thought I’d chime in. I deal a lot with the big Merc’s. Done about a dozen 400r or 450 to 500 repowers. And a similar number of V10 repowers. But no experience with the V10-R (Which runs 450 lower units).

500 makes a TON of power. They’ve proven fairly reliable too (keep in mind it’s still a 500hp supercharged engine, not a ‘03 Camry… it’s not going to magically run forever without some wrenching). On the semi surfacing application a few people have noticed decreased performance or sometimes cavitation due to the larger diameter. On the SM surfing boats, water pressure is much easier to hold than the 450, and the engine pulls hard. The extra rpm range allows for more holeshot. They’re expensive though! You need a 500-specific steering cylinder, new prop hub, or a new 500 cut cleaver, as well as the addition of a rigging center on your boat, and it’s associated new harnesses and labor. Your boat is small enough you can reuse some of the old 14pin harnesses. But in applications greater than something like 20ft wire runs, mercury wants the new Low Loss data harnesses installed.

I’d consider 450. It’s the best speed for the money. You can buy one for peanuts right now with a full warranty! Call any performance boat builder in FL… they all have them left over still… call TNT Marine… they’ve got some too.

400R’s can still be found new, but it’s getting tougher. Again, just call around. Lots of people in FL have left over stock. This is hands down the most reliable engine. 2000hr isn’t uncommon. I’ve seen 4-5k hours in 350hp fishing boat applications. A 450 is usually toast by 1200, or has at least gone thought a powerhead or 2.

Also note 450 & 500 require 1/2” fuel hose throughout. And they have a much bigger alternator, which is great for hosue battery loads on modern boats. But bad if you have one of the tiny blue charge isolators installed: it will need to be upgraded as well

This attached article sheds some light on what went into the design and engineering of the L6 Verado. Knowing it has some Porsche engineering prowess also helps. But one thing stands out. The L6 design started and finished with forced induction. The V8’s started as N/A and migrated to forced induction. Im sure this is why we see the durability differences.