383 Stroker Final Assembly

[SneakyPete]

Well Wheeler called me today, the motor is done and is on the truck, should be here by Next Wednesday, but I will believe it when I see it. This will be my "anyone can take something apart, but I have no idea how to put it back together" thread. The guy told me around 36* total timing, with about 12* at idle. He said right now it is set at 0*. When I run the cam in, do I need to mess with the timing, or just get the timing to where it will stay running and then spin her up to 2500 to get it broken in? I'm using a 750cfm Edelbrock Marine Performer carb, so what kind of jeting changes, if any, do you think I should do to compensate for the bigger displacement? As usual, thanks in advance!
One more thing, when I was taking off the distributor, the ign. wires were connected to studs with a nut on either side of the connector. On one post, the nuts were frozen, and caused the whole studs to turn, and it made a couple of revolutions. It broke the connector off of the the wire, but I didnt care because I was replacing the wire anyways, however my concern (I have since freed the 2 nuts) is the distributor itself. That stud goes into a little sealed black box inside the distributor housing. Does it simpley make contact with metal inside that little box, and therefor can spin all it wants, or is there a wire that it connects to, and may have done on the inside what I already did to the wire on the outside? I hope I was clear enough, thanks again!

 

[happy]

hey pete...

the lil black box your referring too inside the distributor... is your ignition sensor.. so you will have to replace it... the new style has three conncection.. white w/ a red stripe ... white w/a green stripe and black... black goes to ground.. and the other wires should plug n play..

as far as cam break in goes... you can set your timing to manufacs specs.. i normally run them in at 8 degrees.. and then set final timing (in your case) 36 degrees.. at full advance.


as far as your jetting goes.. for your carb.. not much i can help you here with.. unless you know how to read plugs.. or your gonna send it to dyno..

 

[vinny p.]

I am not familiar with that distributor, so I cant offer any advice on that.

I thought you were getting a short block? Did Wheeler put the heads on? If so, did he set the distributor? If so, I dont knwo how he can say for certain that it is set to 0*. That would be a real good trick I would like to learn. Distributors are set up by getting #1 cylinder to T.D.C. and dropping it in the hole. Thats usually close enough to get the engine to fire up, but to be able to say its at 0* with any certainty, is not realistic. I like to start up fresh engines with a timing light all set up and ready to go. 36* total timing is about right, the base timing will depend on hhow much advance is in your module. We can work on that later..

Is this is flat tappet cam or roller? Flat tappets are a pain in ass to get started correctly, rollers make life much easier.

Dont worry about getting it back together, we can help you out.

 

[SneakyPete]

My current one has 3 studs, wht/red, wht/grn, and then a ground stud near the other two, excpept on the bottom. Why do I need to replace it, just to update it, or did I break the internal structure? My only concern is that the new rotor seems to be on there pretty good and getting it off may be a pita, if I can at all. Thanks again!

 

[SneakyPete]

Vinny, the heads arent on, I still have to do that. He said the #1 piston is at TDC, and I asked him if I pointed the the distributor at that cylinder, would that be 0* and he said yes. This timing is a mystery to be, I have never done. I understand that you twist the Distributor and hook upa timing light to flash the timing marks on the balancer, but he told me that my timing at idle should be about 12* BTDC. Is all timiing indicated at BTDC, or is some at TDC? is 8* retarderd or advanced when compared to 12*?
I will be reading plugs to get the jetting right.
Its a flat tappet cam, so I gotta do the whole 30 minute break in thing.
I did buy a oil pump primer, that does have the bushing so it will oil the valve train as well.

 

[vinny p.]

Pete,
We have alot to talk about. If the heads are off, YOU will have to adjust the valves as well as dropping in the distributor. Have you ever done this before? Is there anyone around that can be there to help you? The jobs complexity is growing by leaps and bounds. I think it is best if you we were to talk on the phone about this one.

Forget about the 12* base timing, you should be more concerned with total timing to be set to 35*. The problem will be how much advance your module has built in. I dont know the answer to that. An advance timing light or indexed dampener will tell the story. The next problem may be to get a total advance of 35* may require the base to be set too high, which will cause a hard start condition.

This is getting too complicated.. e-mail me your # and a good time to call.

 

[happy]

short blocks come so many different ways... its hard to tell what you have until you get it... however if the timing cover is off.. when you get the engine.. there should be one dot on the cam gear, and one dot on the crank gear.. if these two dots are alinged directly adjacent to each other.. then you are on tdc.. (((((( NR 6 CYL)))) NOT #1.. #1 cyl tdc the cam sprocket dot will be at 12 noon on your watch, and so will your crank sprocket dot..

as far as your ignition module goes.. there are a buch of #s on the module.. (it usually bolts up on the manifold..)) the #s will tell you how much advance that module will give... i still reccomend full advance timing in your instance..

as far a setting the distributor goes.. (done after the valve adjustment) i point the roter to #1... cyl.. you'll need a long screwdriver to turn the oil pump to allow your distributor roter to point in the right direction...

this also leans me to this question.... have you an apparatus to prelube the engine?? needs to be done prior to setting the distrib..

 

[happy]

<<<< still getting used to this site.... so be easy on me...

<<< back to the ignition sensor....

one of the nuts that broke off controll your ignition.. you'll have no spark...since there are bolts holding those wires to the side of the distrib.. you have the old style... two wires out the side.. and one (ground ) underneath the distrib..

the new sensor does away with the ground underneath.. and the nuts on the side of the distrib.. three wires come out of the new sensor.. and hook up into your engine harness (comes complete with instructions too ) hope that helps... and if not.. pm me w/ your #.. will help ya out..

 

[SneakyPete]

Happy,
I sent you a pic of my disributor. I also looked at my ignition (the box attatched to the riser) and it says:
Thunderbolt IV
Breakerless
Electronic Timing
High Energy Ignition
Stamped next to that sticker is "V822"
Does that mean it is for a V8, and can provide 22* of advance?

 

[SneakyPete]

I have read quite a bit that there has been lots of Flat Tappet Cam failures due to a change in oil additves etc. I also have read that Shell Rotella T oil and a bottle of break in additive is recomended, comp cams even recomends the Rotella T. My question is my engine builder recomends 20w50 oil, and he said never to use synthetic becuase of the way the bearing clearences are set up. Shell Rotella only comes in 15w 40, is that okay to use (it seems close enough), becuase I am really scared of wiping the cam due to the fact that I will probably wipe a lot of lube off of the cam turning it over to get it started, and also while adjusting the valves.

 

[vinny p.]

Pete,

Hopefullly, the engine builder covered the cam with break-in lube. Its your job to cover the bottom and sides of the lifters. Also, pump them up with oil before dropping them into their bores. If you follow procedures, the engine will fire right up. When running in a new engine, the main cause of flat tappet cam failure is not keeping the rpms up for the first few minutes. Keeping the rpms up, keeps the oil pressure at max and helps the lifters to rotate in their bores. They need help doing this at first until they form a pattern and can rotate freely on their own.

I warned you about this weeks ago. Thats why I said go roller.


When dropping them in, make sure they slide in real easy. I doubt the builder checked the bores. If I remember, you are running stamped steel rockers. If so, put a dab of break-in lube under the rocker where the push rod touches, at the pivot ball and on top of the valve.

As for what oil to run. I dont feel it makes much of a difference. Personally, I dont like synthetics. You cant run in a new engine with that stuff anyway. If using petroleum based, I dont want to tell you to vary from what he said. However, I dont see the need to use multi weight oils in a boat. Personally, I run straight 40 Pennzoil.

 

[SneakyPete]

Vinny, believe me I wanted to go roller, but this build murdered my budget, and I wanted (needed) to save money where ever I could, but I guess if the cam fails, a roller would be cheaper in the long run...
If I had more money, I would have gone with aluminum Edelbrock ETEC heads, roller cam, and roller rockers.
At the rocker lube points, should I use moly assembly lube, or the cam lube?

 

[vinny p.]

Either lube will work fine.

 

[SneakyPete]

It came in today, and looks great. It has falt top psitons with two valve relief pockets, instead of the 18cc dish pistons that he told me were going in it, but I'm not sending it back now. My old flywheel was 12.75 inches, and the new one is 14inches, what kind of problems is this gonna creat, ie will it fit under the bellhousing, will my starter line up?

 

[vinny p.]

Pete,

What head gaskets and cc cylinder head did he say would be needed to get the compression you want? Did he tell you the cc of the cylinder? What is the cc of the head chambers?
I have never seen a small flywheel on a 8 cylinder Chevy motor. It should have 128 teeth on it. I dont know what wheel you had. The starter will definetly be a problem, make sure you have the right one for the wheel.

 

[SneakyPete]

The heads are 64cc, I don't know anything else. He recomended Fel Pro 1003 head gaskets, which are .041 thick. I don't know anything else about the motor as far as dimensions as I am still waiting on a build sheet. Also, I can't find freakin spring shims large enough to fit over the large vavlve guide bosses on the vortec heads. I used a dremel to bore out the shim in order to fit it over the guide, but that way is far too time consuming, and burns up bits. The shims I have have the biggest ID I couled find, about .810 I think I need at least .885, but can't find shims with a big enought ID anywhere. This flyweel thing is a PITA too, do I need to buy a whole new starter, as the new flywheel is 1.25 inches bigger than the old...I hope my bellhousing will fit over it too...FRUSTRATED BIG TIME!!!
If it means anything, the starter did not have any shims on it when I took it off the old motor.

 

[SneakyPete]

Can I use my old flywheel, or is the new one 383 specific (although I took it off, and on the motor side it says "FWFP 350") I counted the teeth, and it has a lot, like 168 or 170, but I kept losing count...

 

[vinny p.]

Pete,
I cant understand why you are having trouble finding the right spring shims??? They should be available. Grinding out that hard a metal by hand must suck. You must be burning up you fingers as well as the grinding stones. I would call Comp Cams or Isky and get the right shims. Were there any shims under the springs before you checked the heights?
As for the flywheel, you will have to refresh my memory.. What type of rear main seal is on the old block and the new block? There are 2 types, the old style slips in between the crank and the rear main bearing cap and is made of 2 pieces. The new style bolts on from the back of the block and is 1 piece. Its real easy to tell which you have from looking at the back of the block. If your not sure, send me a picture.

The reason I ask this is because the flywheels are not interchangeable between these 2 styles of blocks. If the blocks are the same, I would ask the engine builder how he balanced the rotating asembly. Most likely, its zero balance. If so, then you can swap wheels. However, I would have the old wheel resurfaced and rebalanced to make sure its ok.

 

[SneakyPete]

Vinny,
I called Comp Cams on the shims situation, and they didn't have any proper sizes available. However, all my installed heights mic'd out within about .010 of each other, from about 1.844 to 1.855. The installed height of the spring is 1.8, however the beehive spring I am using is stiffer than the recomended spring, (130 instead of 105 at the seat & 318 @ 1.2 instead of 273 @ 1.25), so leaving the springs a little high actaully puts me pretty close to where I need to be pressure-wise. I verified this with the Comp Cams tech and he said that is fine. I know its not the best way to go, but it is a trade off, and I was buring up stones like crazy, the .015 shims grinded okay, but the .060 were terrible! I broke one of my valve locks (it split in 2, and it fit back in fine, but I'm not gonna chance it) so I am waiting on some valve locks. I installed one of the heads, and torqued the bolts down to 70ftlbs, ARP said 85 ftlbs with 30wt oil, or 65 with their ARP thread sealent, I used permatex thread sealent which I assumed to be not quite as slippery as the ARP stuff, so I addded 5 ftlbs, and I used a circular torquing pattern, and did it in 3 steps, increasing about 25ftlbs each time around. I can't remember which main seal I have, but the new flywheel is such a beautiful piece that I am going to use it, and just buy a new starter. It is super light, and the old flywheel is really heavy, and fairly rusty.

 

[vinny p.]

""The installed height of the spring is 1.8, however the beehive spring I am using is stiffer than the recomended spring, (130 instead of 105 at the seat & 318 @ 1.2 instead of 273 @ 1.25), so leaving the springs a little high actaully puts me pretty close to where I need to be pressure-wise""


Let me see if I understand you. You measured the spring heights with your height mic and got 1.844 - 1.855 .. The beehive springs require a 1.800 height to get 130 lbs.. But, your cam only needs 105 lbs on the seat. The question is how much pressure will these springs give you on the seat at 1.844 and 1.855??? Will it be the 105 lbs required for your cam? I know you dont have a spring pressure tester, so did Comp give you these #'s? At what height do these springs hit coil bind? What lift is your cam? I know you are not running a radical cam profile, but I just want to be sure.