85 Starflite with wet transom

[JT Patroni]

I bought this boat in July this year. Got to use it first week of August.
The trim tab mounting screws must have been leaking pretty bad.

I removed the motor, the trim tabs the swim platforms and the transom
eye bolts. There wasn't an ounce of any kind of sealer anywhere. Now I know why the transom is so wet.

I know the transom has to be replaced. This is a project I have never tried before. I guess the top half of the boat should be removed to make the project easier to accomplish.

Should I cut the inside of the transom away to replace the wet wood? Or do I cut the outside away? I have heard of a product called (now I am guessing at the spelling) couza board. It is recommended rather than using plywood again. Is this overkill? I have done some glass work in the past but I have a lot to learn. Should a pro do this or can it be done by someone that has good woodworking experiance and moderate glassing experiance.

Can any of you fellows offer some constructive advise?

 

[Will30]

Hi , Check out this Thread from Bigredinohio . Hes redoing a V-mate and the transom is part of his restoration . This should give you the info you need .

http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14935

 

[groundloop]

The product you're talking about is Coosa Board, it's pretty high dollar. I did the transom in my first boat using 3/4 ACX plywood, and for my '79 Eluder which I'm working on right now I broke down and bought a sheet of 3/4 AB marine plywood. IMHO, Coosa board is overkill, but it should work. (There are several grades of it, check with the manufacturer for the proper grade - I think it's B-26?)

You'll remove the rub rail, and lift the cap off the hull to gain access to the transom. I'm using 4 come-alongs to hang the cap from the rafters in my garage while I work on the hull. You'll cut the plywood off the forward face of the transom, then remove the wet/rotted wood with a wood chisel or whatever your weapon of choice is. You definitely don't want to remove the rear skin.

There are several threads going right now from guys restoring older Checks. Look through as many as you can because what one of us might have had problems with the other guys might not have run into. There's a lot to learn. (mines at http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15673 )

Also, another site with a lot of information is iboats.com. Their forums are pretty active with a lot of good advice also.

By the way, I'll bet you a cup of coffee that you'll end up dong the stringers and deck while you're at it - water/rot seems to spread like cancer once it gets started.

 

[JT Patroni]

Will 30,

Thank you for that site. It was very easy to understand what he was doing by the pictures he posted.

groundloop,

Also thanks to you. The first thing I had to do was remove the old floor and stringers as well as remove the forward bulkhead/foam. The bow eye was loose and the holes were elongated so I had to fix that. Then I put
temporary stringers and floor in just to get away on vacation. I had planned on a complete resto to the entire hull, both inside and out.
I always loved the Checkmate Starflite OB model but never bought one.
Now that I have purchased one, I want it to look like it just came off the
showroom floor. As I am getting ready to retire this will be a great project.
The Evinrude 175 XP that was on the boat was in BAD shape so it is parted out. I just bought a 96 Johnson 200 fresh water motor to replace it. This salt water envronment here in S. Jersey takes it toll in equipment it not maintained. The old owner just used and abused this rig.

But now the fun begins.

Again, Thanks.

Jim

 

[groundloop]

Geeze, my fat fingers (and now I can't edit my post). Instead of saying "You'll cut the plywood off the forward face of the transom" it of course should say you'll cut the FIBERGLASS off the forward face.....

Sounds like your already well into your project. I need to post a few more photos, I've finished the tearing apart and have finally started putting back together - I have my transom built and am impatiently waiting for fiberglass and epoxy to arrive so I can get it put in.

 

[JT Patroni]

I am fortunate that my daughter took over my business and I still have use of a 4000 sq ft building with heat. Between fork lift with jib boom and chain falls removing the cap will be easier.

 

[Will30]

Will 30,

Thank you for that site. It was very easy to understand what he was doing by the pictures he posted.

No problem . I redone my transom but I used sea cast . And didnt have to tear the whole boat apart . Just had to dig the old wood out . But its alot more soild that wood . And the best thing is I will never have to worry about ever again . If I ever have to do another transom on another boat its also gunna get sea cast poured in it .

http://transomrepair.com/store/agora.cgi

 

[bigredinohio]

 

[bigredinohio]

I only slid my top up a couple of feet to make room to work in the stern of the boat. I don't have much room and I live in city limits which restricts what I can leave in the driveway.

As for your transom, coosa is supposed to be top of the line. Since my boat isn't the most desirable nor super fast, I simply went with traditional BC exterioer grade ply. I should of upgraded to the better stuff but I feel like I'm making up by using epoxy which I feel is better in the strength and waterproofing dept. I figure what I'm using and doing has to be better then factory...not that the factory didn't do a good job.

Also, you want to save the outside fiberglass skin so cut from the inside!!!

 

[teamhart2]

Lots of good advice so far, and just look through old resto threads, a bunch of us have redone transoms so theres lots of good pictures and different ways of doing things.

If you can do it, coosa is the way to go from what I have heard, dont have to worry about it ever rotting again.

Also if your transom is even partially rotted most of it will come out pretty easily (My brother and I did it in a few hours), I took a circular saw and cut a checkerboard into the transom from the inside and just chiseled it out (make sure you set your depth right and give yourself room to play with) I left about an inch of wood around the outside that I mostly removed in one piece for a template, but ended up modifying it anyways, as there was a lot of filler around it, and I wanted mine to be a tighter fit.

Good Luck!!

 

[JT Patroni]

bigredinohio,
I believe like you, epoxy is the way to go. I am building an all mahogany
16-1/2' inboard flat bottom speed boat and West System is all I use. It may by 2-1/2 times the cost but I consider that cheap.

teamheart2
I have looked thru several of the transom restoration projects so far.
My cousin is into fiberglass boats where I like wood boats. But I love
my Starflite. My cousin told me that while the coosa board is excellent
( he uses it) it may just be overkill especially if I pre glass the plywood prior to install in the boat just as bigredinohio did. It will probably last another 20 years so long as I seal all the thru hull fittings PROPERLY.

I have stripped the hull out already. Now to finish the lifting frame, then drill out the rivits. I put a temp partial sole in, back in July. I will remove
the entire sole along with stringers and install a devinacell (hope I spelled
it right) sole/stringer system. The sole takes a lot of water soaking so I think it will hold up better than encapsulated plywood. This should be a fun project. Did I ever say I hate fiberglass dust? Hated it with a passion when I had my Corvettes in the old days.

 

[Will30]

My transom repair with sea cast

Here are some poor quality pics from four or five years ago.

 

[JT Patroni]

bigredinohio

I agree with you on the epoxy issue. It is the best insurance for a
strong bond. To me it cures stronger and smells alot better. I have read
several of the other post in regards to their method of transom replacement material. I think I will wrap the Okoume BS 1088 marine plywood in glass like you did. To encapsulate like you did will preserve the wood better than any other method I have read about. One additional thing I will do is epoxy 1/8" wall fiberglass tubes into the motor holes. That will prevent water from bypassing any sealant and getting to the wood. I am not using a jackplate just mounting with a Stainless transom saver.
Nice job on your rework, real clean installation.

 

[JT Patroni]

will30,

I just looked at your pictures of the sea cast repair. I asked 2 fiberglass guys here in Cape May about using it. Both said that it does make a good repair. Their one concern is with getting the surface of the inner and outer glass panels clean to get a strong bond. I can see where it has to be hard to get down in there to clean the surface. Can you shed some light on this concern?

 

[Will30]

will30,

I just looked at your pictures of the sea cast repair. I asked 2 fiberglass guys here in Cape May about using it. Both said that it does make a good repair. Their one concern is with getting the surface of the inner and outer glass panels clean to get a strong bond. I can see where it has to be hard to get down in there to clean the surface. Can you shed some light on this concern?

My dad did most of it and it was all dug out with a 3 ft pry bar and done day . He kept scraping and cleaning it out with the shop vac . The next day we mixed up the sea cast and poured it in . I used 5 gallons of it . Then the 3rd day my old man redone the gel in the back . Uncle machined up a nice aluminum plate for the motor to sit on and I was on the water that fast . Ive had no problems with the repair it holds the 150 hp inline six well . I have no leaks she stays nice and dry and it is very strong .

 

[groundloop]

One additional thing I will do is epoxy 1/8" wall fiberglass tubes into the motor holes.

West systems has an online brochure about the proper way to seal hull or transom penetrations. I took their information and adapted it to installing a new transom. Wherever there's going to be a hole into or through the transom drill out an oversized hole. Wet out the wood on the inside of the hole with epoxy, then fill the hole with a thick paste of epoxy and milled fiberglass. After it cures install the transom. All holes will be drilled into the epoxy filler instead of wood.

 

[jallen355]

I haven't read all the other restoration threads, but I know you will get some great direction form the experience that has been emassed here.

Only thing is, I can't image putting all the time, labor and $$ into this kind of rebuild and skimping on the price differnece between wood and coosa.

You say you'll just seal the wood up with more epoxy/glass, etc. Your just adding weight to a component (wood) that is already heavier than coos and therefore compounding the weight penalty your about to pay. You just yourself a weight penalty on a boat that some will argue is under-powered with a 200 hp motor to begin with. Couple that with the extra materials to encapsulate wood and what have you saved?

Call me crazy.... Maybe speed or even longevity isn't your primary objective. In the end of it all, your either going to keep it forever or you might need to consider the reslae value. Either way.....it's Coosa. End of story.


Oh, good luck and... Can't wait to see your final results. Sounds like you've got a clue and I really like the 'Flites.

 

[bigredinohio]

I haven't read all the other restoration threads, but I know you will get some great direction form the experience that has been emassed here.

Only thing is, I can't image putting all the time, labor and $$ into this kind of rebuild and skimping on the price differnece between wood and coosa.

You say you'll just seal the wood up with more epoxy/glass, etc. Your just adding weight to a component (wood) that is already heavier than coos and therefore compounding the weight penalty your about to pay. You just yourself a weight penalty on a boat that some will argue is under-powered with a 200 hp motor to begin with. Couple that with the extra materials to encapsulate wood and what have you saved?

Call me crazy.... Maybe speed or even longevity isn't your primary objective. In the end of it all, your either going to keep it forever or you might need to consider the reslae value. Either way.....it's Coosa. End of story.


Oh, good luck and... Can't wait to see your final results. Sounds like you've got a clue and I really like the 'Flites.

Could you tell me the what the weight difference would be between coosa and encapsulated ply with epoxy? I could be wrong but I can't imagine it would be that drastic.

By the way, I considered coosa but could not bring myself to spend over $100 for board of coosa on a boat that probably should of been classified as junk which I overspent $800 for. No matter what I do with my boat, I can only expect about $3,000 or so with the motor I currently have. I elected to spend the extra money elsewhere, like updating the metal gas tank to plastic, paint, etc.

 

[groundloop]

Coosa Composite's website claims that their B-26 is about 30% lighter than wood. So what's a plywood transom weigh, 50 pounds (just guessing, I won't be taking the scales out to weigh mine before I install it)? That would be a 15 pound weight saving for the transom. Then maybe 15 or 20 pounds for the deck.

Ya' just gotta make your own decision if that kind of weight saving is worth the cost. In my case it's not. And as far as the life expectancy, the reason transoms get wet and rot is because of improper sealing of bolts and fasteners. Combine good construction with properly sealed bolts etc. and my plywood transom will last far longer than I'll ever own the boat.

 

[JT Patroni]

I understand all the concerns regarding the weight issue. Since I am not the youngster that I once was I don't think loosing 3 to 5 mph (guess) will
become a problem. The boat handled very well considering the plywood that is in there was wet and that probably added more weight than the difference between plywood and coosa board.

As for the thru holes in the transom I have used the larger epoxy filled holes with good success. I just wanted to try something different with the epoxied tubes.

I started removing the rivets holding the rub rail and top half to the hull. Many of the rivets were missing. The rest will be fun to remove. The steel mandrel in the rivet doesn't push thru with a drift. I don't want to create any damage by hitting with too much force. This will take longer than I expected. I found no sealant between the deck and hull. I guess that if the factory didn't apply any that this must be the reason water gets into the foam. I think a small bead of a good silicone sealer could make a big difference. I already started making the program for my CNC to cut the transom and redisigned knee supports/stringers. I was amazed where the original knee's were attached. That had to be more for appearance than anything else.

Keep the suggestions coming. I keep learning from every post.