Checkmate 'vrs' Hydrostream continues...

[jrumon]

Hey guys...My whole life has seen a battle with Checkmate and Hydrostream boats...My first Mate was a 15' V-mate-1 with a 140 merc (90 stickers of course)...always battling those hydrostream 15' vipers and 17' vectors. I always liked the checkmate styling better, but finally caved in to the "flying wing" to reach that 80+ MPH mark. I wish checkmate made more OUTBOARD powered models...I love that 2100 pulsair bowrider...clean lines, nice layout, but how fast have they gone (any ideas)???

I had a chance to ride in a new 2003 Hydrostream Vegas XT 21' bowrider last weekend with a Merc 300 Pro-Max on a bob's 10" jack plate...Brought back fond memories of that rival Checkmate-Hydrostream competition thing! But (I hate to say), this new boat is scary fast!!!! It had about 25 hours on it, and on a 3-6" chop (with two 200 pound guys and 1/2 tank of fuel), I saw numbers in the 90+MPH range (93 on my GPS) and the boat was rock solid stable. Fit and finish was excellent (much improved over the past product).

I still like the layout of the Pulsair better (more family freindly), But I would like to know what kind of performance I could get from one with a 300 Pro-Max. Any Ideas??? What set-back and prop??? Anyone put a Pulsair together with a 300 yet??? Thanks, Jim.

 

[Chris]

JR, one of our members SCT had a 21' Pulsare with a 300 Promax on it. He saw about close to 90 MPH. He sold that particular boat and has just ordered a new one, another 21' Pulsare, which will be rigged with another 300 Promax. He hopes to get a top end somewhere between 90-95 MPH.

Just my .02 cents on the Mate versus Hydro debate.

I think Hydro and Mate both build great boats in their own right. It's also important to clarify which models we're comparing to which. Some of the old hyros were capable of blowing over, and really should only be driven on the edge by experienced pilots. The new ones from all accounts are supposed to be much more stable and predictable.

Mate on the other hand, seems to have tried to concentrate on building performance boats which are perhaps a little heavier (versus hydros), stable, and safer by being a little more predictable to drive.

I'm sure JW, who has owned both Hydros and Mates will be along before too long to give you his opinion.

 

[JW]

Be a hard decision between the new Voyager (that's the boat JRumon described) and the Pulsare 2100BR with a 300X. The Pulsare has been built since 1994, the Voyager since a couple years ago (and the owner is still constantly changing the boat as he builds each one). The Voyager will probably be faster due to it's tunnel design, the Pulsare will of course offer a better ride in heavy chop and more interior room. My tunnel Hydrostream (Virage Turbo) was very noisy over chop, and vibrated more than any V-bottom Checkmate I've owned. If I were spending my $40,000 new money on a boat right now, I'd have to go Pulsare because it's a 'known' quality. In a few years, (if Jim Contzen ever quits tweaking on each boat as he makes it and starts building a 'known' quality boat), then the matter will be harder to decide. You can buy a Pulsare/300X quite a bit cheaper than you can buy a Voyager/300X, so it boils down to paying several thousand more for a few mph more.

 

[Chris]

How about the older ones JW.

Let's say a V-King versus a Starflite.

 

[JW]

Not a good comparison. The V-King was barely 18', the Starflight is a big heavy 21'. Let's say Starflight versus old Vegas. The Starflight with a 225 is a 75 mph boat, great ride, well built, very good looking. The Vegas is lighter, faster (about 85), less roomy, not as well built, and not nearly as good looking. A '93 Starflight if taken care of is still solid, most likely a '93 Vegas will need the flooring replaced and probably the core also.
A V-King is Hydrostreams little hot rod. Compared to a Predictor? Same as the others. Checkmate is better built, better ride, slower. V-king has less room, not as well built, but much faster.
Checkmate still builds 16', 17', and 18' boats, Hydrostream doesn't. All of 'Streams new boats are 20+ foot.
The companies really make two different boats that compete in different markets. It's hard to compare. Checkmate builds nice boats for the family man that are faster than all other family boats. Hydrostream builds boats for the hot-rodder, family comes second. The new Voyager is the first exception to the rule that will sell in quantities.

 

[jrumon]

Thanks for the feedback guys...I too have had several checkmates and hydros, and your right about the lay-ups and design function. I would have loved to come ride in JW's Pulsair with that 225 Pro-max just to see what it rides like (planets just couldn't line up)...sorry to hear it was sold! I currently still have my WARLOCK 23' offshore, and want to get into a outboard bowrider...I still haven't ridden in a pulsair yet! That new Hydro was impressive, but the last one I had scared the SH*T out for my wife...I mention the name and she flips out!!! Anyway, that 300 Pro-Max is a breast...Seams like it would be a lot more family friendly than a 2.5 offshore...skiing, cruising, and that occasional top-end run. Jim.

 

[jrumon]

P.S.
Some of my BOAT toys...
8' mini runabout with 10 merc
10' hydroplane with 35 merc
11' Cherokee Mini-offshore with 50 merc
15' Checkmate V-mate with 140 merc
17' Hydrostream Vector with built 225 merc
18' Checkmate jet-mate with 455 olds/berkly
20' Checkmate Enchanter X-S with 300 merc V-6
20' Hydrostream Vegas XT with built 2.4L bridgeport offshore by Land & Sea (325HP)
16' Cobra-Jet with built 455 olds/berkley
16' Donzi with built Ford 351 Holman & Moody
18' Donzi with built Chevy 350/350HP LT-1
20' Sleekcraft SST with merc 225
21' Centurian Day-Cruiser with 514 Ford/berkley
21' Eliminator Daytona with 468 Chevy, supercharged, berkley (95MPH)
23' Eliminator Daytona with Nascar 355ci Chevy (650+HP), merc Speedmaster 3 (109MPH)
23' Warlock with built 500+HP/merc bravo (runs 84-86MPH)...currently FOR SALE!!!
Whats next...needs to fit the family & fsat???

 

[CHECKMATE ZEUS]

WOW! DREAM BOAT GARAGE!

I am the one who knows all!

 

[jrumon]

Woops..I let off a few others...And sorry about the spelling!!! What is FSAT anyway???

Add these boats to my list above...
>a 17' Sanger flat bottom with a 426 Hemi and V-drive...AKA "death wish" (the boat name and feel you got riding in it)!
>a Baja 210 sport with 220 EFI Merc
>a Baja 210 Sun-Sport with 454 Mag and Bravo
>1955 17' Chris-Craft Sportsman (classic ski-boat)
>1947 22' Chris-Craft Sportsman (currently under restoration)...I love sportin' a "WOODY"

I've had a lot of cool toys over the past 30 years! Thanks to my folks starting me off young...I wish I still had some of them!!!

Anyone know anything about the new bigger Checkmate bow-riders...they would be a good "family" toy??? Jim.

 

[Craig]

I have a Pulsare with a 300 Merc Promax. I have yet to break 85 mph on GPS. 8" setback 28 Trophy Plus. Still looking for the perfect prop...hard to find props to try for this setup. I always figured I could see 87-88 with the right prop, over 90 with a 300X.

-Craig

 

[Z06]

Hey Craig hows the Lighting ET on the boat? You tried that yet???

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chevy Corvette Z06
Chris.Ellard9@sympatico.ca

 

[Craig]

I haven't come across one yet, and I'm not going to buy a new one. The dealers in my city won't let you try new props.

-Craig

 

[JY]

Jim, I'm not sure what your definition of "bigger" bowrider is, but I'm running the new ZT230 and it has been PERFECT for both me and the family (two young kids). The boat has an incredible amount of usable space, particularly in the bow - I've had six kids sitting comfortably up there, with 4 adults and two more kids in the cockpit, with everyone riding in comfort. The lines are very similar to the Pulsare, but she has the wider beam that seems to make the world of difference when you're talking usable space. The bow is nice and deep, which really relieves the worries of leaving the dock with six kids and returning with five. The trade-off is in the performance, of course. My numbers are posted somewhere else here, but I'm now seeing about 60 mph gps with the 350 mag. and a good tailwind. But hey, that's only 49 mph slower than your old Eliminator. The boat is rock-solid stable and turns on rails at any speed with no blow-out. The boat has been called "hot" and "sexy" (by people who I know haven't seen the front page of the Checkmate brochure), and I've even had some "Miami Vice" comments (they're the same ones that try to stuff their Duran Duran and Huey Lewis cassettes into the CD player).

 

[jrumon]

Thanks for the input JY..I am waiting for my local dealer or one of the boat shows to see one of these 230's...You'd think Checkmates would be more popular in SE Michigan...it's not that far from the factory!...Hey, I guess I'll could just contact them directly sometime and just take a road trip to the plant! Maybe they'll actually show me the plant and see what's up first hand. Anyone know if Checkmate will show boats at the plant or do customer tours, etc.????

 

[jrumon]

Craig...sounds like your boat is a canidate for a Mazco RE3...It was the only prop I found that worked on my hydro to put it at that 95MPH range (a good 5mph over any other prop I tried). Wish I would have kept some of my props...They are spendy to "try out" and find it not the right one. Call Mazco direct, they may have a test program going now...If you buy one and it's not right they trade-it on something different or may have used ones available. Jim.

 

[JW]

Jrumon, sure you can tour the factory! I've done it a couple times. If you want, I posted a factory tour article with pictures over at screamandfly, I think Greg put the article under the 'features' section..........

Checkmates owned: 1995 Pulsare 2100BR/1995 Mercury Promax 225 2.5 EFI. 1995 Persuader 183/4.3 LX V6. 1992 Pulse 171/1992 Mercury XR6 150 hp 2.5 liter.

 

[JY]

Jim, I drove 11 hours each way by myself to pick up my boat at the factory (and having done it have a new respect for truckers). Bill Coombs gave me a full tour of the plant, and I spoke with several of the workers about their processes. There were maybe four or five boats at or near completion, so you can't count on a ZT230 or any other specific boat being available for viewing. I'm sure they'd agree to call you when the boat you're looking for is available for viewing.

 

[jrumon]

Thanks for all the info...I will need to make a trip some time this winter over to checkmate! With my boating season over (Michigan), it's time to do some "virtual boating" on the web...and start looking for my next toy!!!