Checkmate vs Nordic vs Advantage

[Blue Mist '97]

Sorry about that. I was trying to be funny. I just never cared for the side by side bolsters. I should have left it at that.
Sleekcraft was around forever. Changed a few owners over the years. I didn't care for their plexi windshields. They would haze and crack over time and not very sturdy. I would have them made and shipped out at $600 a pop everyday.
My friend has a 32 heritage mcob with twin 500 efi's. Decent boat with a ton of room. To be honest, I think my 253 Convincor rides better.
The 34 magic was ruined by a certain owner many years ago. The hull was too thin. He didn't last long with the company.
The Sceptor in it's early days was heavy. They tried to lighten it up and i could see daylight through the top mold. They made so many changes in the first couple years, some good some bad. It was kind of trial and error and the customer ended up with the errors.
I will say their upholstery was well done. You could always tell sitting in any of their boats how firm their seats were. They had a very high density foam. Even after many years you didn't get that squishy feel from old foam.
Not sure what the owner was thinking and he was making boats by the dozen. All customers had to do was pick a motor. Problem was when you're spending $100k, people wanted their own color scheme.
So Magic went under and the bank took all the bare hulls. I think someone here in Havasu bought the molds. I kind of work for the owner again and he had talk of bringing the biz back to life.

So, I guess quality is just luck of the draw with Magic, yes? Man, there are just too many different brands out there. How do you know who makes a quality boat, besides Checkmate, Sunsation and a few others?

Here is a MCOB that I would really like to get a look at.

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/10051

If it's still in the great condition they say, it would be ideal for my needs. I would get to stay with Checkmate, wife is happy = WIN--WIN!!!! Not many pics of this 270 BR, but it appears to be pretty nice. I contacted them and while the ad is still active, the person I talked to said that her daughter was not ready to sell at this time. When the ad was listed the boat had very low hours on it, but that was 4 yrs ago. Said the batteries were dead now and they didn't know how many hours were on it. I don't know how much the boat would be worth today, but it is now 4 yrs older, so I was hoping to get a better deal. Maybe they will contact me as soon as the snow melts up there and be ready to sell if all is still good with the boat.

Also, even though I am not a red/black fan, I did send an email on the Checkmate in New York that fast94persuader listed. No response yet. I am going to call to see if they still have the boat.

After looking at other boats, I have to say, our Checkmates are pretty sweet rides and they are hard to beat.

 

[Budman]

Surprisingly, I have been looking at cats as well. Have never been around any, so I don't know much about them.

Cats are great for speed with identical hp to a V bottom.
I also like them since you don't get the "rolling" effect as much while sitting on the lake.
Biggest problem is planing. Takes a lot of hp. If you're into skiiing, don't get one.
Neighbor had a Conquest Boss Cat with a 525 efi and it would not plane with 4 people on board. I drove it and it was brutal and everyone had to move to the front. When it ran, it ran good 84 mph.
Other neighbor just spent $130k on a Conquest deck boat with a 525. Ended up putting tabs on it.

 

[Budman]

Hallet makes a nice boat. Nice gel work. Their hulls aren't the fastest but it's a quality boat.
I like your thread since i would have the same problem choosing another boat if I sold my Checkmate.
We like the performance and the interior although a bit larger interior would be nice.
Not too much I would change except I've been thinking of full hydraulic steering.
Out here in Havasu when it gets 110*, we like the large swin platform and the ease of access to get in the boat.
Good luck in your search.

 

[fast94persuader]

The htm Sr24 is an awesome boat.
I'm a big fan. They pretty much always have custom motors already though.
Keep in mind that the 24 feet doesn't include the sponsons.
I have no experience but I have heard that cats are more expensive to insure.

 

[Blue Mist '97]

The htm Sr24 is an awesome boat.
I'm a big fan. They pretty much always have custom motors already though.
Keep in mind that the 24 feet doesn't include the sponsons.
I have no experience but I have heard that cats are more expensive to insure.

Really? That's interesting. Same for all cats? So, how is length measured? Transom to nose above the bow eye? I haven't seen one that didn't have a big custom motor in it. Not sure the boss lady would want that.

It would not surprise me that they are more expensive to insure.

They are pretty neat looking, but most of the cockpits look pretty shallow, not deep like my Check.

 

[Budman]

The htm Sr24 is an awesome boat.
I'm a big fan. They pretty much always have custom motors already though.
Keep in mind that the 24 feet doesn't include the sponsons.
I have no experience but I have heard that cats are more expensive to insure.

Not sure why you say awesome boat.
I saw one personally and it was a basic cat with big power to get it going.
Nothing fancy on the interior.
I guess people can die in any boat but the owner didn't have much luck
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/12/local/me-22194

 

[fast94persuader]

I think they look cool, and it's a stand up boat. A buddy had one at table rock with the same motor basically as me and it ran 120 and rode pretty nice as long as you were above 60. I only rode in it once. A lot of 24-26 cats are sit down shallower boats. I guess I like the stand up open bow combo in a cat.

 

[corey331]

The htm Sr24 is an awesome boat.
I'm a big fan. They pretty much always have custom motors already though.
Keep in mind that the 24 feet doesn't include the sponsons.
I have no experience but I have heard that cats are more expensive to insure.

My wife and I were looking at 25-27ft. Eliminator Daytonas before we bought our Convincor. There were pros and cons to both, but the biggest strike against the cat was the cost of insurance. Now, I have since learned about places such as Wakezone Insurance that specializes in performance boat insurance and when I was talking to my agent this last year, she said that insurance on small cats has dropped considerably in the last two years mostly due to the popularity of the smaller open bow and deck cats out there. In hind sight, I'm glad I bought my Checkmate. It has a much bigger cuddy and I was able to pay cash for it which worked out great because 3 months after buying it, BAM!!! Twins!!!! lol

 

[linn]

Not sure why you say awesome boat.
I saw one personally and it was a basic cat with big power to get it going.
Nothing fancy on the interior.
I guess people can die in any boat but the owner didn't have much luck
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/12/local/me-22194

So I guess Outlimits and Raptor boats are also not "awesome" because the owners died in them?

People die in boats , it's always unfortunate and tragic when it's happens but that should not stop you from buying a boat from a specific manufacturer. Unless it's a recurring problem.

Would you not buy a Skater or DCB or Fountain or Cigarette or Lavey Craft or Velocity or?

 

[corey331]

So I guess Outlimits and Raptor boats are also not "awesome" because the owners died in them?

People die in boats , it's always unfortunate and tragic when it's happens but that should not stop you from buying a boat from a specific manufacturer. Unless it's a recurring problem.

Would you not buy a Skater or DCB or Fountain or Cigarette or Lavey Craft or Velocity or?

Im pretty sure he was saying they aren't "awesome" due to them being so basic. Which I tend to agree with. To me an HTM reminds me of an American Offshore. Very basic and dated design compared to a lot of other tunnels out there. I have a preference to Eliminator myself, but DCB's look pretty cool too.

But even stepping into an HTM, it feels like a very basic boat, but that's what some people seem to like, a no nonsense boat designed to do one thing, go fast. But when I look at an HTM, the word "awesome" never really comes to mind.

 

[Budman]

So I guess Outlimits and Raptor boats are also not "awesome" because the owners died in them?

People die in boats , it's always unfortunate and tragic when it's happens but that should not stop you from buying a boat from a specific manufacturer. Unless it's a recurring problem.

Would you not buy a Skater or DCB or Fountain or Cigarette or Lavey Craft or Velocity or?

I didn't say that at all. Maybe my wording wasn't the best.
I was asking fast94 why he thought they were awesome.
And then I just gave my opinion on them.
And I just posted a link to a story about an HTM flipping.
Everyone's so sensitive here.

 

[Blue Mist '97]

My wife and I were looking at 25-27ft. Eliminator Daytonas before we bought our Convincor. There were pros and cons to both, but the biggest strike against the cat was the cost of insurance. Now, I have since learned about places such as Wakezone Insurance that specializes in performance boat insurance and when I was talking to my agent this last year, she said that insurance on small cats has dropped considerably in the last two years mostly due to the popularity of the smaller open bow and deck cats out there. In hind sight, I'm glad I bought my Checkmate. It has a much bigger cuddy and I was able to pay cash for it which worked out great because 3 months after buying it, BAM!!! Twins!!!! lol

Man, you might oughtta start saving up for a bigger boat...

Talked to Wakezone last year when I re-upped my insurance. They gave me a very good quote through Foremost. After comparing apples to apples, we had decided to go with Wakezone, but when I told my current insurance guy that we were going to cancel, he got off his a$$ and got me an even better deal through Foremost. Most insurance guys are basically lazy and they don't or won't shop your policy unless you make them.

Had Progressive at the time with no problems, but I had heard and read about many horror stories if you file a claim (I know there are good stories out there as well, but with my luck), plus my wife is a commercial insurance broker and she says we should shop around every couple of years just to see if there are better deals. Foremost quoted the same limits as Progressive and saved me almost $400 a year. Needless to say we dumped FLO.... Now back to boat stuff!!

Like fast94, I too like to stand up at the helm. One of the main reasons I bought my Check was the fact that I (we) felt like we were "in" the boat and not just "on" the boat. Some of the boats we looked at seemed like we were on a bass boat and just did not feel comfortable. Not bashing bass boats, I just like the feel of the Check.

Looked at Hallett, Howard and LaveyCraft and they are all great boats. It's difficult for me to shop boats over the internet, since I can't touch 'em and see 'em in person. You never really know till you actually put your eyes and hands on them. I like to look at the little things like fit and finish, any spider cracks, look at bilge, etc. Just being pretty in pictures don't make it great. So much easier to shop Checkmate, since I already know what I have.

Last night I was looking at HTM's and happened to find the late owner's personal boat. It was a nice boat with BIG power and it was pretty. While looking at the pics I noticed rusty looking stuff on the boat below the drain plug, scratches in the gel coat on the underside and spider cracks on the deck. Boat looked like it had never been polished. It was a tribute boat to him and the others that lost their lives in 2002, but it wasn't that impressive to me.

 

[Budman]

If there's anything I can do for you as far as going to look at an Advantage or Nordic or any boat you find out here, just let me know. I can take pics and give you an honest opinion of what I see.

 

[Blue Mist '97]

I appreciate that. May take you up on it if I find something out in Havasu. If I find something and take a trip out there, I'll buy you a brew.

Got a bite on my Check a couple of days ago, so I guess should start looking a little harder. The problem is, the more I look, the more frustrated I get.

 

[mkhammer]

My two cents

Since I live on the west coast and Have worked on and driven Eliminators, Nordics and many other brands. And I just sold a Advantage victory off my lot last summer that I drove all day, I have rigged a couple of Majics and DCB makes a 28 V bottom that is simular to a Eliminator that would go in that class.
The Elininator Eagle is a fine boat the one I drove had 600 hp and at around 70 it had to be planted all the way down or it started to become unstable, It wanted to chine walk a little and it and it did not like to turn well. I drove a Nordic heat with stock 502 power and it was a nice boat but seam to be not finished as well and I didn't like the seats or the cockpit I got around 65 on the speedo, The Advantage was the nicest boat, It was a mid cabin open bow 502 mpi, it was solid and had the best layout and finish over the ones I had just mentioned.
It was a heavier boat and gave a smooth stable ride and I have seen others that were supercharged that the oweners raved,
The boat handled great on a cable and the Gel work was straight and of quality.
Another one that is top notch is a Hallett I like them just as much as the Advantage.
The Majics are nice but not my choice I have driven a few.
I have to tell you My Checkmate has quality troughout the others do not except the Advantage. I look down the sides of my Checkmate and it is straight. I see waves in other boats but not the Advantage. My checkmates bottom was not good and I felt it when I drove it that's why I did extensive bottom work on it.
A good ride on any performance V bottom boat in this class depends on how well the bottom design is, how straight it is and how it's rigged. The cockpit and cabin layout is preference. If I was going to do it again I would consider a Advantage It is a well thought out stable and safe feeling and rings of quality. Feels like you are sitting secure in it not on top of it.The open bow is deep and padded with lots of storage.
Other than that If would stay with a Hand laminated Checkmate I have had mine next to a lot of others while sitting on the trailer at my shop and it made me appreciate how well my Checkmate was built.
If you want to go fast in a V bottom above 70 with a unmatched ride A Howard, Hallett or Shciada is the way to go but your pay more for these.

 

[mkhammer]

Not sure why you say awesome boat.
I saw one personally and it was a basic cat with big power to get it going.
Nothing fancy on the interior.
I guess people can die in any boat but the owner didn't have much luck
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/12/local/me-22194

I saw a HTM flip at Havasu I don't know if any were killed but they were all in the water.
many boats swooped in to help and the patrol was there quick.
As far as the late owner Steve Of HTM< I hired an ex HTM Mechanic some years after the accident that was standing on the beach when they were all killed.
The accident affected the boating and insurance industry greatly.
First they were on lake Castaic, Ca. that had a inforced 35 mph speed limit at all times
I believe he said it was a 30' model with twin blown engines. The first time out with owner driving they hit over 150 MPH. They took it back to the shop and changed the drive rotation to counter inward to try to get more speed. well the rest is known. 4 killed and one engine is said to be still at the bottom of the lake.
What I noticed in a HTM that they are not like other cats there size they sit high in the water just sitting there. Others are lower so when they trap air they are not as high as the HTM achored.
The HTM traps too much air is my opinion and become light and at a certain point of speed will blow over. I wouldn't want to go over 90 in one but I would and have in an Eliminator, DCB and a host of others. I drove a Next cat 100 on GPS that was a good feeling ride.
The Next boats were built by the owner's son of Eliminator. There are some good proven hulls out there.

 

[Blue Mist '97]

Maybe, just maybe, I can sell my boat and still stay with Checkmate.

I would also like to know more about the Convincor 270BR? Pros and cons from anyone who has knowledge of them or has/had one? How do they compare to the 251, 253 or the Persuader 261 in ride, performance, etc? I wouldn't think they are all that different from my boat. I did find a performance review on the boat from 2001.

Called the owner of the one I really like today. Said that they still weren't sure if they want to sell or not. However, she did say that if I was that interested, I could make an offer and they would decide whether they would sell or not. Said they weren't going to give it away and I don't blame them (I wouldn't either). She told me they don't have a clue as to the value of the boat.

I don't normally do business like that, but I might be willing to make an exception, if this boat is "that" nice. Depending on what I can find out about it, I might consider making them a fair offer, contingent of course, on the boat passing all the hurdles and if I can find a "fair" market value. Is there any semi-proven method to find a boat's real worth? Not sure if NADA is really very accurate for real world prices.

Initial questions - Dead batteries, tires and old fuel - it's been sitting in their shop for a long time. Has only been used a couple of times in the last 4-5 yrs. Listed hours is 112, but should be a tad over that now.

So, any SWAG's on what a 2002 Checkmate Convincor 270BR with a triple axle trailer might be worth?

 

[pbjsammich]

First off, looks like we are neighbors. Think I saw your boat up on Craigslist. Sharp looking boat BTW!!

A friend of mine on Conroe has a 27' Nordic MCOB. Let me know if you'd like to go for a ride. He tried hitching a few rides before buying so I'm sure he'd return the favor. He got his for a pretty good price but required a lot of "restoring" to get it up to his standards. Seems very well built and EXTREMELY solid on Conroe in the weekend slop. The Nordic lines are certainly much more attractive than you're typical Conroe Baja.

I happened across (what appeared to be) a very clean & low hour 2003 Convincor 270 MCOB several months back before I pulled the trigger on my BRX. Maybe they still have it??

Regardless, PM me if you're interested in either of the above...and hope to see you on the lake this summer!!

 

[diesel30]

Pier 57 in Chicago has a checkmate 270 with an Ateco 540 in it. They've had it for a while. Very good people to work with. They will negotiate too. Bought mine from them last year and if I'm ever going to upgrade they will be the first place I look. I got a smoking deal. Whether they sell you a 20k boat or a 600k boat they roll the red carpet out for every customer. First class people.