Head problems on the 4th

[ontherocks83]

So we had our family party on the lake on the 5th and had emailed everyone to tell them to bring life jackets for their kids because we were going to give lots of boat rides on our newly acquired boat!!! Well on the 4th after it stopped raining I took the wife and 3 year old out for a ride around 5pm. I let the engine warm up and we were off. After less then 10 minutes the engine started to bog and surge. The wife looked at me like the erratic slowing and speeding up was my fault and before I could explain to her it wasn't to calm her death stare, the engine died.

We came to a stop I gave the engine a minute and on the first try it fired back up. It was running rough but at least it was running. I thought it was a fuel issue as we had been having them previously and I limped her back to dock having to re-start her 8 or 9 times over 2 miles. During this time I had started to notice that when it started acting worse there was a fair amount of white smoke coming from the exhaust.

I let the engine cool off and still thinking it was water in the fuel I changed out the fuel filter/water seperator. After about 1 hour I went out for another ride (this time by myself) and after 5 minutes it started doing it again. I made my way back to dock and let it idle at dock. What I observed is that the smoke was only coming from the port side exhaust and it seemed to get worse the harder I pushed or heated up the engine. If I idled it or turned it off and let it cool it got slightly better. The smoke ended up being pure steam with no smell to it and then it finally hit me that my port side head is probably leaking into one of the cylinders

Unfortunately I can't get back to the boat until this weekend but I am going to borrow my friends high end borescope with picture taking ability and look into the spark plug holes to see if one or more of the cylinders have been steam cleaned. If so I am going to remove the head and hopefully it will be able to be resurfaced.

So needless to say the wife is non too happy due to the fact that we just bought the boat and have had to put a fair amount of money into it.

I having grown up around boats know that this is just how it is, but I am having a hard time convincing her of that. Also I had to send out a retraction email to her whole family the night before the party telling them they had to tell their kids no boat rides

Sorry for the novel but I think I needed a little venting therapy. However for the technical question. What do you guys think and do you have any other things to look for or advice to give? Also if you think it might be something else or that I may be missing something please feel free to let me know.

The engine is a 1989 carb'd 350 small block.

 

[Gimme Fuel]

So we had our family party on the lake on the 5th and had emailed everyone to tell them to bring life jackets for their kids because we were going to give lots of boat rides on our newly acquired boat!!! Well on the 4th after it stopped raining I took the wife and 3 year old out for a ride around 5pm. I let the engine warm up and we were off. After less then 10 minutes the engine started to bog and surge. The wife looked at me like the erratic slowing and speeding up was my fault and before I could explain to her it wasn't to calm her death stare, the engine died.

We came to a stop I gave the engine a minute and on the first try it fired back up. It was running rough but at least it was running. I thought it was a fuel issue as we had been having them previously and I limped her back to dock having to re-start her 8 or 9 times over 2 miles. During this time I had started to notice that when it started acting worse there was a fair amount of white smoke coming from the exhaust.

I let the engine cool off and still thinking it was water in the fuel I changed out the fuel filter/water seperator. After about 1 hour I went out for another ride (this time by myself) and after 5 minutes it started doing it again. I made my way back to dock and let it idle at dock. What I observed is that the smoke was only coming from the port side exhaust and it seemed to get worse the harder I pushed or heated up the engine. If I idled it or turned it off and let it cool it got slightly better. The smoke ended up being pure steam with no smell to it and then it finally hit me that my port side head is probably leaking into one of the cylinders

Unfortunately I can't get back to the boat until this weekend but I am going to borrow my friends high end borescope with picture taking ability and look into the spark plug holes to see if one or more of the cylinders have been steam cleaned. If so I am going to remove the head and hopefully it will be able to be resurfaced.

So needless to say the wife is non too happy due to the fact that we just bought the boat and have had to put a fair amount of money into it.

I having grown up around boats know that this is just how it is, but I am having a hard time convincing her of that. Also I had to send out a retraction email to her whole family the night before the party telling them they had to tell their kids no boat rides

Sorry for the novel but I think I needed a little venting therapy. However for the technical question. What do you guys think and do you have any other things to look for or advice to give? Also if you think it might be something else or that I may be missing something please feel free to let me know.

The engine is a 1989 carb'd 350 small block.

Sounds like a blown head gasket.

 

[ontherocks83]

Sounds like a blown head gasket.

I was thinking that too but my thought is, if I have the head off then I may as well get it, machined just in case. Does that sound logical? And is it normal or at least not unusual for just the head gasket to let go?

 

[Gimme Fuel]

The head gasket can just let go. Depends on conditions it let go then how long the motor was running while hurt. Is your oil real milky now?

 

[ontherocks83]

I did check that, oill looks fine. I dont think the leak is horrible as it will run ok at an idle with a decent amount of smoke and only really smokes alot when you heat it up and work the engine.

 

[Jimway]

Is the powerplant overheating or running hotter than usual at the times that the steam is coming from the exhaust?

 

[ontherocks83]

Is the powerplant overheating or running hotter than usual at the times that the steam is coming from the exhaust?

No. I was watching that like a hawk. The temp never got above 175 or 180. She Usually cruises at 165 and can go to 180 when making higher speed runs

 

[ontherocks83]

So I still haven't made it to the boat yet but I have found some other possibilites that could explain the smoke and wanted to know if any of you have encountered any of these before or have thoughts on the matter?

-One possibility is the water pump is weak (i.e. missing blades, but i figure this would cause both sides to have an issue) or along the same line the pump sucked in some debris and over heated the exhaust riser on that one side. The idea is that a overheated and then rapidly cooled riser can crack and pour water into the # 3 and 5 cylinders causing the smoke.

-The next possibility is that the water ports in the block and the head that are next to the cylinder have rotted and elongated and are leaking into the cylinders. If this is the case then that spells new engine or new block.

-And then there is still the warped or cracked head or just bad head gasket possibility.

I was advised to run the motor to operating temp, bring it to 1500 rpm and see if the port riser gets very hot or too hot to touch compared to the starboard side. From there with it idling start pulling spark plug wires and see if removing one makes any difference in how it runs (i.e. its skipping).
I was thinking of doing this Thursday and then going back Saturday to remove the riser and port head.

From what I have gathered if it seems to be skipping on the #3 and or #5 cylinders it could be a riser or head gasket issue. If it is skipping on the #1 or #7 then it could be a head gasket. And then there is still the rotted water jacket issue which could be anywhere and cause the same symptoms.

Thoughts? Comments? Prayers? ok maybe prayers is a little melo dramatic

 

[GTStang]

Hey saw you boat a few weeks ago on Quinsig looked sweet!

Sorry your having issues with the boat if you want I have one of those laser temp guns if you want to try to see what the temp of each cylinder is by the exhaust.

 

[Jimway]

Praying for you and also sending a toast your way (using tjr Keith 'Jimway' Drinkin Glass). What do you think of installing a compression gauge on that side of motor and running a quick test. Might just show you what is going on.

 

[ontherocks83]

Hey saw you boat a few weeks ago on Quinsig looked sweet!

Sorry your having issues with the boat if you want I have one of those laser temp guns if you want to try to see what the temp of each cylinder is by the exhaust.

Thanks for the compliment! I appreciate the offer. I have one too and am planning on doing some tests / tear downs tomorrow.

Praying for you and also sending a toast your way (using tjr Keith 'Jimway' Drinkin Glass). What do you think of installing a compression gauge on that side of motor and running a quick test. Might just show you what is going on.

Thanks for the prayers/toasts!

I started the boat yesterday and let it get up to temp, I ran it in neutral up to 2k and it took a few minutes to start getting some steam from the port exhaust. I lasered the exhaust risers and neither got extremely hot. Starboard side was 100-105F and the port where I am having the problem was 110-120F.

I was thinking of doing a compression test on all the cylinders tomorrow as a base line and then taking off the port head and having it sent out. I am praying I just see a blown head gasket but I am going to have the head checked/decked at a machine shop no matter what.

I have one mechanic thinking that it could still be a weak water pump which damaged the riser, being that a weak pump can't get water when up at speed but will still flow fine at idle when I'm checking it at the dock. And when at speed the riser starves of water gets hot and then cracked causing the steam/running issue by dumping water onto the #3 and #5 cylinders.

I'll take pictures and try to update everything on monday

 

[ontherocks83]

I got the port side head off the boat this weekend and had a mechanic at my work look at it. He found that the water passages near the cylinders are rotted out casuing water to leak under the cylinder head gasket. If you look at the picture of the head, at the 12 oclock position i've highlighted one of the passages in red. It is hard to see because the gasket is still in the way, but after I cleaned off the old gasket you can see that the water passage is now actually under the ring that the gasket sits on.

So now I am waiting on a new cylinder head for about $400. Plus all new gaskets and incidentals. Not the end of the world but I've only owned the boat for 6 weeks so the wife isn't too happy about all the issues / extra money. The hard decision is whether to do the other head now as it is probably in similar condition, or do I let it ride and break up the cost over time a little and see how long it lasts for? The only thing I'd be loosing by waiting is my labor/time.

 

[illMATTic]

An additional $400 for the other head now may save you a whole engine later. If it lets loose while running full tilt you could kiss it all goodbye.

 

[Gimme Fuel]

I agree with Matt. Do em both. Cheap insurance. Be sure to check and flush water jacket on the block too. Pressure test all exhaust while it is off. Not something to chance. If parts are all same age, rate of corrosion is same for all

 

[Gimme Fuel]

Check into enginequest castings. Supposedly they have a pretty darn good iron small block head for the price of very close to GM castings.

 

[GTStang]

Sorry you having these issues so early in ownership. If you are looking at both heads being around $800 I'm going to throw something out there since it can be done for similar kind of money and get you +35-ish hp...

Vortec head swap

 

[Gimme Fuel]

Sorry you having these issues so early in ownership. If you are looking at both heads being around $800 I'm going to throw something out there since it can be done for similar kind of money and get you +35-ish hp...

Vortec head swap

Yea, no point in going back to the old factory heads. Vortecs are another great option, are everywhere, and cheap. You will need to change your intake manifold As it has a different bolt pattern. But there are several available.

 

[Old Navy]

I would just get some low cost used heads and have them gone through. That option will let you keep boating for less money and keep peace with the wife.

 

[ontherocks83]

I would just get some low cost used heads and have them gone through. That option will let you keep boating for less money and keep peace with the wife.

All good ideas. I think im going to replace the one head for now and do the other this winter. I was seriously considering upgrading and adding power but what I think ive decided on is get her in reliable running condition by next spring. Then spend the next few years restoring the rest of the boat little by little and when that is done I will repower. That will give me time to decide how I want to repower it and what upgrades I want to add at that time. For now I think minimum is going to win and maybe in a few years I might just get a new long block, or get a stripped block and build it from scratch slowly. But I digress and gettinv way ahead of myself. I'll post more pics and updates as they come.

Thanks again everyone for the advice!

 

[ezstriper]

you can bet the other is not far behind...also block has to be corroded as well, ck manifolds closely as well