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serious power increase
- Thread starter stclairriverblaster
- Start date
stclairriverblaster
Member
oh its very real.. and theres nothing fast and furious about a awd talon that runs 8.7s and is daily driven (same type motor)
Big Red
Well-known member
Let me know when you get to Bristol, im not far from their I must see this in person. 2 more things I must ask. How do you plan on hooking that to a all gm set up, bell housing, coupler, and exhaust? And second do you have a neighbor that is sticking a porsche engine in a Checkmate jetboat ?
stclairriverblaster
Member
i can build the motor for around 2500 dollars ready to install and run the bell housing or dampner i will get custom made with a flywheel i have laying around..
big red.. come on down to bristol i am here now. helping a frreind move.. i must say south holston lake that im five mins from is REALLY awesome and warm.
big red.. come on down to bristol i am here now. helping a frreind move.. i must say south holston lake that im five mins from is REALLY awesome and warm.
ndaniels
Well-known member
Well........ I have to applaud you for posting such and endeavour publicly. Same goes for the jetboat/porsche dude. I have respect for you guys that get an idea in your head and go for it like that.
I hate to say it, but I believe its gonna be a huge pia and end up alot more expensive than what you're thinkin.. and reliability? Who knows in a marine application how this little thing will work. IMHO a BBC would be the thing to do.. big hp and torque.. just bolt it in, turn key, and let it eat. That being said, I really hope to see this run and read about your results with it.
You gonna post some pics as the work progresses?
Good luck with it, Nick.
I hate to say it, but I believe its gonna be a huge pia and end up alot more expensive than what you're thinkin.. and reliability? Who knows in a marine application how this little thing will work. IMHO a BBC would be the thing to do.. big hp and torque.. just bolt it in, turn key, and let it eat. That being said, I really hope to see this run and read about your results with it.
You gonna post some pics as the work progresses?
Good luck with it, Nick.
stclairriverblaster
Member
thank you for the positive reply.. and the motors have no real durabilty issues in cars.. but we all know boats are different animals.. i will actually probably end up doing a closed loop cooling system as well.. to keep stuff more in spec when it comes to expansion.
im hoping the HUGE weights savings. and slight fuel savings will make this a winner. and if it does end up working out very well hopefully more people will look at boosted 4 cylinders because they CAN make the power.
im hoping the HUGE weights savings. and slight fuel savings will make this a winner. and if it does end up working out very well hopefully more people will look at boosted 4 cylinders because they CAN make the power.
Big Red
Well-known member
Lets not forget Check253's boat is boosted and its making 1500HP
corey331
Well-known member
i'm with Nick on this one. It is a very cool idea, and I always love when somebody does something different. But I think your cost analysis is a little off. I have plenty of experience building small displacement/high horsepower motors. The 3.8 v6 in my Grand National makes roughly 800 FWHP. When I set out to reach a number like that, I had a budget in mind, and that budget went out the window with a quickness!! I eneded up spending roughly double my original budget. Now if you ask me "Was it worth it?" I'd say "Oh hell yes!!!". I don't want you to take this post as a bash on what you are trying to do, cause I actually think its cool as hell!! I think you might want to leave a little more room in your budget.
Another really cool option and still being in the "different" category would be a viper V10 swap. The low torque issue would go out the window and you would have tons of power!!
If you need any advice on the 4g63 motor stuff, a buddy of mine owns a company that specializes in those. www.jayracing.com He, is a guy based out of Dayton, Ohio and I believe his Talon is well into the 9's now.
Another great reference would be www.buschurracing.com They build some NASTY EVO's and are amazing with the 4g63 motor. I believe his daily driven full interior car is deep in the 8's now. They are located a little closer to you, I believe in the Norwalk, Ohio area.
Keep us updated, sounds like a cool project!!
jazzy
Well-known member
corey your probably right we should all wish him well but it is a lot of fun to pick on someone when they start talking crazy i hope it works out for him
stclairriverblaster
Member
i know what your talking about budget wise.. i already have everything minus the cams and the rotating assembly.. i priced it out and the motor ready to drop in and start tuning will cost me aroun d 2500 bux.
my buddy thats helping me with the build knows buschur and jay and kigley and others. . and even used to race with them.
like i said before i will start off with a smaller pitch and work my way up till i hit a wall.
ndaniels
Well-known member
1979checkmate
Member
there are ALWAYS unexpected costs in projects like these. Even those random runs to autozone for little things add up quick! Machine shop fees etc. With that said, i am very excited to see where this project goes 
happy
Active member
I sent you a pm on this
happy
Active member
What are the plans for low end torque? Assuming the boat weighs somewhere in the 3k lb range, your gonna need low end torque to get to get on plane. One of the huge differences between marine and automotive cams are how they are ground. Not to mention the duration to eliminate water reversion. I copied this from an article, from an annonomous 3rd party to convey engineering differences. And to gain your thoughts on how to overcome these.
"The biggest difference is that marine engine cylinder blocks are based on heavier-duty truck blocks, replete with four-bolt main bearing support of the crankshaft instead of just two. Keep in mind a car only uses about 15 of its one or 200 horsepower to sustain a speed of 55 mph. Conversely, a boat is always under load. Its marine cycle can be compared to hitching a 10,000 pound boat and trailer on the bumper of a car and trying to climb the Rocky Mountains at 80 miles an hour.
Besides the severe duty cycle there are other important differences. A marine engine’s core plugs are corrosion resistant bronze. The camshaft is ground to different specifications, most often to maximize low end torque instead of high rpm horsepower. Valve overlap (the time when both intake and exhaust valve are open) is shortened in order to minimize the chance of water being sucked out of the exhaust and into the combustion chamber. Gaskets are premium quality for better sealing and corrosion resistance. Most important of all the marine grade components are the starter, alternator and distributor. All three are fitted with special screens that quench internal sparks that might otherwise vent into the atmosphere and light-off gasoline fumes present in the engine compartment."
http://www.marineenginedigest.com/specialreports/marinevauto.htm
"The biggest difference is that marine engine cylinder blocks are based on heavier-duty truck blocks, replete with four-bolt main bearing support of the crankshaft instead of just two. Keep in mind a car only uses about 15 of its one or 200 horsepower to sustain a speed of 55 mph. Conversely, a boat is always under load. Its marine cycle can be compared to hitching a 10,000 pound boat and trailer on the bumper of a car and trying to climb the Rocky Mountains at 80 miles an hour.
Besides the severe duty cycle there are other important differences. A marine engine’s core plugs are corrosion resistant bronze. The camshaft is ground to different specifications, most often to maximize low end torque instead of high rpm horsepower. Valve overlap (the time when both intake and exhaust valve are open) is shortened in order to minimize the chance of water being sucked out of the exhaust and into the combustion chamber. Gaskets are premium quality for better sealing and corrosion resistance. Most important of all the marine grade components are the starter, alternator and distributor. All three are fitted with special screens that quench internal sparks that might otherwise vent into the atmosphere and light-off gasoline fumes present in the engine compartment."
http://www.marineenginedigest.com/specialreports/marinevauto.htm
jazzy
Well-known member
hey just a question here but i remember when i was a kid some of the big boys with too much money were putting lamborghini motors in their boats and other very exotic motors wouldnt something like that be a similar situation cause none of the italian motors were ever setup to make any sort of low end torque they just wanted to make sure they could rev them to ten grand i wonder what those guys did to make them work but then again when you have gobs of money to throw around you can make quick work of any situation
stclairriverblaster
Member
i am getting custom cams ground and as far as water reversion that is no concern cause i will have a special water jacketed header.
i understand the load is alot more.. and the 4g63 will handle it. it is a VERY beefy 4 cylinder and the stock block and crank can actually handle more power reliably than a 454 stock for stock.
i understand the load is alot more.. and the 4g63 will handle it. it is a VERY beefy 4 cylinder and the stock block and crank can actually handle more power reliably than a 454 stock for stock.