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serious power increase

this idea partially came about because we are also planning on doing it in a jetboat (19' scarab). the benefit of the jetboat is that the engine can freely rev up into its power band until the jet actually pressurizes. as far as "marine blocks are heavier duty" that is bull, i have seen many a pulled apart mercruser 454 with a plain jane old 2 bolt main in it. nothing special or heavy duty about it. not saying in the convincor this is a great idea but im done arguing with my friends about my opinion, all i know is my next drag boat (debating on v or 3 point) will be a turbo 4 cyl, but that is a totally different animal.

as far aas the convincor i can't wait till its done and proves some of my worries wrong. but i will help him with whatever i can and keep whispering in his ear that he should change to a 19-21' shallow v small block boat to push less weight.
 
stclairriverblaster said:
as many of you know i had some issues with my 454 in my convincor so ive decided to part it all out.. anything big block related will be up for sale here shortly.

i will be purchasing a new motor from my good freind and respectable motor builder here locally
the motor is a 92 4g63t 2.0L yes thats right a 4 cylinder
the motor currently makes 852 hp and 654 ftlb the motor is fully built and will spin up to 9k no problem and hold it! :lol:

details to follow.

:popcorn::cheers:
Click to expand...

What kind of #'s do you have on this motor, other than its god, and you say so? Ya know there are many experienced people on here that can really give you a hand achieving your goal. We have seen no real data, other than (you say so). Examples, how are you going to couple up the engine in the boat? What steps have you taken in your custom exhaust to ensure zero water reversion? Can you provide drawings? What intake are you running and why, back it up with some real time data, not racetrack stuff in a car, this is a boat. Can we see some thought behind the change in the center of gravity in the boat and how it will affect handling, speed and efficiency? How it pulls a load uphill all day. Your cam is being ground, let’s see some real numbers!! Custom ground, means nothing what’s your lift, duration ect. What engineering information do you have that says your engine is tougher than a Chevy 454, 502 ect? Where can this info be found, who said it, and what testing method was used. What is your foundation for such claims? Please refrain from saying that physics, and all the compiled data for over 50 years ceases to exist with this engine, that magical dust makes it go. Show something that is viable. Think about it, present it, and make an effort to show the true challenge you face in this task. If this engine was capable of such promise, why hasn’t a major manufacture marinized this engine? Why isn't it in offshore race boats now?
 
happy said:
What kind of #'s do you have on this motor, other than its god, and you say so? Ya know there are many experienced people on here that can really give you a hand achieving your goal. We have seen no real data, other than (you say so). Examples, how are you going to couple up the engine in the boat? What steps have you taken in your custom exhaust to ensure zero water reversion? Can you provide drawings? What intake are you running and why, back it up with some real time data, not racetrack stuff in a car, this is a boat. Can we see some thought behind the change in the center of gravity in the boat and how it will affect handling, speed and efficiency? How it pulls a load uphill all day. Your cam is being ground, let’s see some real numbers!! Custom ground, means nothing what’s your lift, duration ect. What engineering information do you have that says your engine is tougher than a Chevy 454, 502 ect? Where can this info be found, who said it, and what testing method was used. What is your foundation for such claims? Please refrain from saying that physics, and all the compiled data for over 50 years ceases to exist with this engine, that magical dust makes it go. Show something that is viable. Think about it, present it, and make an effort to show the true challenge you face in this task. If this engine was capable of such promise, why hasn’t a major manufacture marinized this engine? Why isn't it in offshore race boats now?
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i have contacted a local machine shop to fab up the coupler
the ehaust will be a tubular header running to a t3/t4 flange with a water jacket welded around it.. much like the cmi headers i have now. the intake will be the stock intake that comes in the cars.
as far as the cam i will be contacting crower for cams and telling him what i am doing he will grind me a custom profile

the motor has been used by MANY PEOPLE and the fact that the stock block holds up to more horsepower in daily driven cars than a big block can hold.. google. shep burshur kigley they are running VERY high horsepower off of stock blocks. with no problems.. and my buddy who had the second fastest 4g63t powered car back in 2000 has had A TON of personal experience with these motors and has tried everything you can imagine on them.. he personally told me these numbers.. aka. 500 hp limit on pistons reliably . 700 on rods reliably and 1100 on stock crank reliably because he has done it..

with todays technology it is totally possible to build these motors to work.. sure not na. but boosted. most definatly
 
A winger!! I've too always found it the best to whip things together, blend it and such.. Awsome Idea.. Are you married? kids?
 
Sorry dude, but a bbc starter motor is going to have more bottom end torque than this weedwacker motor. Sure it may make big horse power, but big power with small cubes means alot of rpm's to make that power. You are not going to have a six speed tranny and a clutch to keep those r's up. Also, I have built a few engines over the years, both street and race, and I have never seen anybody make 800 hp for $2500, much less keep it together. The displacement of this engine for a marine application is against you right from the start. You are not putting it in an 1800# car that you could push start if you needed to. Maybe get someone with a big block to tow you and get you up to 50 or 60 and then turn the nasa proven space shuttle launchen rice burner loose! Actually, I do wish you good luck with the project, but from what I have seen in the past, you could save yourself a little money and alot of headache. boatman
 
see.. my buddys motor torque came on around 3000 and keep pullin till redline..
and heres my thing.. i dont need the boat to jump out of the water on take off if it takes me five seconds to plane out then so be it.. but midrange and up top its gonna be wicked.!

the whole hull is getting gutted.. no back seat.. carbon engine hatch. no interior in the nose. and two lighweight seats.

heres my thought on getting on plane. i am gonna vent the exhaust at the bottom of the v of the hull near the drain plug. . and start with a small pitch prop.. 21 to be exact.. when i go to take off the exhaust gases will mix with the water creating a greater slip percentage. for a small window of time.
 
stclairriverblaster said:
see.. my buddys motor torque came on around 3000 and keep pullin till redline..
and heres my thing.. i dont need the boat to jump out of the water on take off if it takes me five seconds to plane out then so be it.. but midrange and up top its gonna be wicked.!

the whole hull is getting gutted.. no back seat.. carbon engine hatch. no interior in the nose. and two lighweight seats.

heres my thought on getting on plane. i am gonna vent the exhaust at the bottom of the v of the hull near the drain plug. . and start with a small pitch prop.. 21 to be exact.. when i go to take off the exhaust gases will mix with the water creating a greater slip percentage. for a small window of time.
Click to expand...

strap one of these on, you'll improve your 5 second plane time!!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JATO
 
yellowfiero88 said:
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OK I do have something. I think your trying to play pool with a rope, pissing into the wind, etc, etc. IMO, there is no way the 4 banger will get it up on plane. Its a big boat to do so and takes a lot of low end grunt, not a tq curve that starts @ 3k. Now that motor in a smaller boat would be wicked, something around 500-900#. The exhaust will be out of the water before the boat is on plane so that ideal will not work, IMO. If it don't work, you will have a boat that NO ONE will buy due to the motor in it. I have seen SBC convincors that don't sell because of the motor. The BBC is the only way to go, proven and tested for years and years. Simple bolt on accessories and drop it in. You can be on the water the next weekend

On the other hand, I hope you do get it together and it runs like you think. I like thinking outside the box on things. I do wish you luck. BTW, dry exhaust so you don't have to worry about water reversion :thumb:
 
Im with yellow on this one. i actually think it is a great idea. An economical boosted 4 banger in a boat. but i feel the convincor is too heavy a boat to do this to. It would be awesome to put that motor in something like a v-mate or trimate and convert the boat to I/O. small boat=small motor big boat=big motor. the motor you speak of would be dominant in a 16-18 ft boat. Dont get any of us wrong, we are not trying to criticize your idea, i speak for myself when i say that we just dont want you to get thousands of dollars invested to be stuck with a boat that doesnt work and alot of heartache. I LOVE the idea i think it is very innovative. You have thought out the motor very well, but try and think over the hull it is going in as well. Good luck.
 
my convincor took 2 seconds even with a 1.34 gear ratio and a 24 pitch bravo 1 :sssh: thats what had me confused it had a ton of low end power but nothing up top..


thank you for the kind comments.. and yes i do realize it is a larger hull to be doing it with. but i look at it this way.. i have the hull and the drive.. if it doesnt work i pull the motor out.. and sell the hull/trailer and then build a enchanter with it.

also since the 4g63 weighs approx 300 lbs fully ready to go turbo and all the weight savings are huge.. now heres a thought of mine.. since there wont be as much weight to counteract the weight of the nose. will the weight of the nose help it plane off by keeping the transom from digging down too far. ?
 
checkmate set up the boats from the factory to have the best optimal center of gravity. They placed heavier items in places in order to get teh weight distribution they wanted for each hull. Does this mean i dont think that weight loss is good? Of course not. However, dont loose all your weight from one place and throw the cener of gravity off. Is it possible that te change in center of gravity will actually help? Yeah but i would err on the side of caution and try to stay close to the weight distribution checkmate calculated in the first place.
 
stclairriverblaster said:
if it doesnt work i pull the motor out.. and sell the hull/trailer and then build a enchanter with it.
Click to expand...
:bigthumb:, LOL!
I would say the loss of the weight might hurt you in getting on plane. My thoughts are its going to be way heavy in the nose and its going to want to pitch nose down and push instead of nose up and on plane. I lost 186# on the enchanter and it made a huge difference in how it sits in the water, take off, etc, etc. Your talking about loosing 500# out of the rear (thinking fully dressed BBC weighs in @800#?)
 
STCRB Nice joke going on here, You went from wanting to patch up and sleeve a bad 454 block that needs to be scraped due to budget issues. I have a block for you. A gen IV 454 4-bolt .010 over right now. buy some pistons and drop your rotating assembly in it. I'll sell you the bare block only. I don't know how long you are going to ride this rice burner gag.
It would never work and I sure you are not serious.

So when you get done pulling everyone's chain let me know.

You are starting to sound like Checkthis
 
Or cut to the chase, and put a 572 in it. keep it natural, years of solid service worry free running. Something that will have real marketability
 
yellowfiero88 said:
OK I do have something. I think your trying to play pool with a rope, pissing into the wind, etc, etc. IMO, there is no way the 4 banger will get it up on plane. Its a big boat to do so and takes a lot of low end grunt, not a tq curve that starts @ 3k. Now that motor in a smaller boat would be wicked, something around 500-900#. The exhaust will be out of the water before the boat is on plane so that ideal will not work, IMO. If it don't work, you will have a boat that NO ONE will buy due to the motor in it. I have seen SBC convincors that don't sell because of the motor. The BBC is the only way to go, proven and tested for years and years. Simple bolt on accessories and drop it in. You can be on the water the next weekend

On the other hand, I hope you do get it together and it runs like you think. I like thinking outside the box on things. I do wish you luck. BTW, dry exhaust so you don't have to worry about water reversion :thumb:
Click to expand...

Sounds like Brian wants to race, My money is on Brian.
 
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