'85 Starflite Stringer Resto

[jmshipp]

Well.... I had no idea I was going to be adding to the resto topics but it looks like I am just lucky I guess.

Started something like this... I went to pull the backseat since it had some rot in and I figured I would rebuild it over the winter. I figured it was just from people crawling in from the water over the years. WRONG! While messing around in the bilge I noticed that the battery was moving a little too easy. I started pushing on it and it fell over with the battery tray still attached. SH**! I took a screwdriver and stuck in one of the holes only to have it go all the way through.

Today... I pulled the gas tank to try and assess the situation and here is what I found.

I have a ton of questions I am going to need everyone's help with but want to make sure I get them all down before I post.

Bottom line... the floor on the stbd side is toast. The stringer was powder. The stringers and bulkhead had all de-laminated from the hull. The port stringer and the bulkhead were solid as a rock. I drilled into them with a hole saw and it was good. I have a feeling that someone did not seal the screws for the battery tray that is how the water got in. The knees are both super solid. The floor back where it attaches to the transom seems to be solid. I did pull a tie hook, speedo mount, and motor mounting bolt to see if the transom was mush and it all looked real good. Not sure how the stringers delaminated.... BUT, this is the Kunkel boat that had the HUGE V8 on it and was one of the first 'flites off the line (at least that is what I was told by Jason Kunkel). The only thing I can think of is that the rotted stbd stringer was gone and the rest of the assembly could not take the stress and delaminated.

Other than this, the boat is near perfect. So I am definitely going to fix it. I am just trying to figure out if I have the ability to do it or if I need to get someone to do it.

So where to start.....?

 

[Rob B]

You'll need to finish removing the interior so that there's room to move around. Second take plenty of pictures and measurements for references. Read thru some of the other floor/stringers resto's to get an idea of what you'll be dealing with. Lastly you can do this, we'll walk you thru it. I would replace both stringers, floor and knees if you're gonna tear it apart.

 

[jmshipp]

I have read through JTPatroni's thread at least a half a dozen times. I think I am going to beef up the knees while I am in there. The plan is to replace both knees, both stringers, rear section of the floor on both sides, and the bulkhead at the front of the tank support.

After I took the pictures I figured what the heck so I started pulling up the cracked fberglass that was being supported by the foam. I then dug out a bunch of the foam to check it out and look at the core. The foam was damp and the core was wet but did not look damaged.

My plan is to do it myself. I have done some glass work on my dad's old Vette. Seems like over the years it has always had an attraction for solid objects... bunch of stories there.

So here are some of the questions that I think I need to get started...


1. If the core is just wet, will that dry out? I know to look for black areas to find the damaged core.... right?

2. Can I just cut out the rear part of the floor? Everything from the ski locker forward is rock solid. I was think I would just cut it along the crease in the carpet from where the seat base had been sitting.

3. When I put in the new knees and stringersin, will the glass ahear to the transom or am I going to something special to get it to stick?

I guess, at this point, I need to just start cutting and get it all out. My main concern is cutting the floor where it attaches to the transom. I dont want to cut into the transom.

 

[Rob B]

I have read through JTPatroni's thread at least a half a dozen times. I think I am going to beef up the knees while I am in there. The plan is to replace both knees, both stringers, rear section of the floor on both sides, and the bulkhead at the front of the tank support.

After I took the pictures I figured what the heck so I started pulling up the cracked fberglass that was being supported by the foam. I then dug out a bunch of the foam to check it out and look at the core. The foam was damp and the core was wet but did not look damaged.

My plan is to do it myself. I have done some glass work on my dad's old Vette. Seems like over the years it has always had an attraction for solid objects... bunch of stories there.

So here are some of the questions that I think I need to get started...


1. If the core is just wet, will that dry out? I know to look for black areas to find the damaged core.... right?
Once it's wet you'll need to remove it, and yes black areas is damaged core. This will be an easy fix, read Cooperider's how to repair core.

2. Can I just cut out the rear part of the floor? Everything from the ski locker forward is rock solid. I was think I would just cut it along the crease in the carpet from where the seat base had been sitting.
You can, but once the rot starts it's like cancer. Just replace the whole floor and be done with it.

3. When I put in the new knees and stringersin, will the glass ahear to the transom or am I going to something special to get it to stick?

You'll need to grind the area with 36 grit so that the fiberglass mat will adhere to the transom.

I guess, at this point, I need to just start cutting and get it all out. My main concern is cutting the floor where it attaches to the transom. I dont want to cut into the transom.

Use a skil saw to cut about 4" from where the floor meets the hull. Set the blade about 1/2". Use a 4 1/2" grinder with a cutting disc to cut the floor from the hull. What you're trying to do is score that area enough to break the floor loose with a wood chisel. If you're not quite sure PM your cell number and I'll explain it. For where the floor meets the transom use a cut off tool or a multi tool. http://www.lowes.com/pd_304840-54602-RK5100K.1_4294777325_4294937087_?productId=3223565&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Oscillating%2BTool%2BKits_4294777325_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr%7C0%7C%7Cp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

 

[Mark]

X2 to Robbie's advice. There are a few ways you can go about a new floor. Here's my thread. If you read to the end I did knees and a core repair as well. http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4539

 

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Hey guy just curious have you decided on what resin you are going to use Poly , Vinyl , or Epoxy and may i suggest fully encapsulating your stringers .

 

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

CMPULSE 170 great choice of tools about 16 years ago i purchased a Fein Multimaster when they were fairly new and hard to find which is one of those tools that can be used for just about any type of job .

 

[SKATR186]

Use a skil saw to cut about 4" from where the floor meets the hull. Set the blade about 1/2". Use a 4 1/2" grinder with a cutting disc to cut the floor from the hull. What you're trying to do is score that area enough to break the floor loose with a wood chisel. If you're not quite sure PM your cell number and I'll explain it. For where the floor meets the transom use a cut off tool or a multi tool. http://www.lowes.com/pd_304840-54602-RK5100K.1_4294777325_4294937087_?productId=3223565&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Oscillating%2BTool%2BKits_4294777325_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr%7C0%7C%7Cp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

Harbor Frieght has a good multitool for a great deal. Good cheap cutting wheels too.

Have fun doing the work I did mine last year.

Mike

 

[Rob B]

CMPULSE 170 great choice of tools about 16 years ago i purchased a Fein Multimaster when they were fairly new and hard to find which is one of those tools that can be used for just about any type of job .

I wanted a Fein Multimaster until I seen the price, sticker shock!!! That tool is a lifesaver, great for all around use!!!

 

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

I wanted a Fein Multimaster until I seen the price, sticker shock!!! That tool is a lifesaver, great for all around use!!!

I know $$$$$ Fein Multimaster is a shock as far as sticker price but ........when i purchased the Fien many years ago there was no other tool like it available at that time , and now .............WOW !

 

[Rob B]

This is the one I wanted. http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...familyName=Fein+MultiMaster+FMM+250Q+Top+Plus

 

[jmshipp]

X2 to Robbie's advice. There are a few ways you can go about a new floor. Here's my thread. If you read to the end I did knees and a core repair as well. http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4539

Mark,

thanks for the link. I will definitely read through it tonight. My plan is to start cutting on it tomorrow!

- Mike

 

[jmshipp]

Use a skil saw to cut about 4" from where the floor meets the hull. Set the blade about 1/2". Use a 4 1/2" grinder with a cutting disc to cut the floor from the hull. What you're trying to do is score that area enough to break the floor loose with a wood chisel. If you're not quite sure PM your cell number and I'll explain it. For where the floor meets the transom use a cut off tool or a multi tool.

CM...

Thanks for the tips on the tools. I had planned on taking a circ saw and setting it to 1/2" to cut out the floor. I do have a multi tool I will use as well.

When you talk about the grinder, will any type of cutting wheel work? I have a bunch of them but they are all for metal. I thought about using the multimaster for that as well. Got the wood chisels redy to go.

Tools are not an issue... I am fortunate enough to be in sales for one of the largest tool distributors in the country. So, any suggestions on what may make this the easiest, I will get them!

I know I will have to do some sanding to get most of the black stuff off also. I heard 36 grit somewhere in the other threads. Can I use a flap wheel on the grinder for this or do I need to use a palm sander. I dont want to get too agressive with it and burn into the core.

I will post some more pictures tomorrow after the destruction begins. The boat is not stored at my house, so I have to go to where it is stored to work on it on the weekends.

My plan is the get the floor, stringers, and foam out tomorrow. Should know a little more about what I am working with then.

THANKS EVERYONE!

 

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

cmpulse170 - funny thing when i purchased my Fein ,many years ago there was only one package which now is there most popular .

 

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Hey guy .... Personally i would take a peek at Jeff's Enchaanter Resto considering you and him are basically doing the same restoration just different boats , and in my opinion you owe it to yourself to at least take a look .

 

[Rob B]

CM...

Thanks for the tips on the tools. I had planned on taking a circ saw and setting it to 1/2" to cut out the floor. I do have a multi tool I will use as well.

When you talk about the grinder, will any type of cutting wheel work? I have a bunch of them but they are all for metal. I thought about using the multimaster for that as well. Got the wood chisels redy to go.

Tools are not an issue... I am fortunate enough to be in sales for one of the largest tool distributors in the country. So, any suggestions on what may make this the easiest, I will get them!

I know I will have to do some sanding to get most of the black stuff off also. I heard 36 grit somewhere in the other threads. Can I use a flap wheel on the grinder for this or do I need to use a palm sander. I dont want to get too agressive with it and burn into the core.

I will post some more pictures tomorrow after the destruction begins. The boat is not stored at my house, so I have to go to where it is stored to work on it on the weekends.

My plan is the get the floor, stringers, and foam out tomorrow. Should know a little more about what I am working with then.

THANKS EVERYONE!

The metal cutting disc will work, I used the same one when cutting out the floor. The flap wheel will work as well, just take out a little material at the time. Those wheels are aggressive.!!!

 

[jmshipp]

FLOOR IS OUT~

OK... so I got the floor, stringers, and knees out and I about to start sanding. Robbie was a huge help in telling me how to get the edges of the floor up. Now I have a few more questions before I start sanding.

I can see the "tabbed glass" (I am going to call it) from where the stringers and floor were glassed to the core. Am I going to need to sand all of that off? If so, is there a way to do it easier? I did take the chisel I was working with and I was able to push it up under this layer coming in from the side that was cut. It did lift a little bit. I just did not push it because I was afraid of damaging the core. I have fixed many guitars over the years from where hacks had slid chisels, screwdrivers, etc between a joint and pryed. The peice they were trying to get loose came loose at the expense of the piece that was made into a fulcrum.

So can I just pry it up? I am using some of my old luthier tools, since I dont build guitars anymore, that are very sharp. Should I be concerned that these could cut into the core?

Here are some picture of what I am talking about. I have drawn in a white line so you can see the edge of the "tabbed glass"... I hope this makes sense....

 

[Tx91z28]

i used 36 or 50 grit wheels on an angle grinder, is fast and easy but be careful - it takes material off FAST and will do more harm than good if you let it get away from you

 

[welly193]

Starflite rebuild

I had the same problem as you except my port stringer was toast. Sorry I did not see this thread earlier. My port stringer and bulkhead were toast but like you the knees were solid. This work was way over my head so I hired a pro to do this for me who also builds/ repairs offshore boats.

He beefed up the stringer assembly and fabricated and bonded two marine plywood pieces together for each side. On the stringer side that was good he bonded the second stringer to it and extended it as described below.

He also extended the stringers forward from the bench seat area up to include the passenger area and added an additional forward bulkhead. He spent a lot of time preparing the hull for the re-glassing. All the foam was removed as well as the knees and transom ground and cleaned to rebond the new stringers in place. The stringers were also bonded to both sides of the hull ( requiring removal of the foam).

He claims the bonding of the two 3/4 plywood together is much stronger and lighter than wood twice it's thinkness. I also did not replace the ski locker area after having all this rebuilt.

Ill try and dig up the pictres if there is interest.

Well.... I had no idea I was going to be adding to the resto topics but it looks like I am just lucky I guess.

Started something like this... I went to pull the backseat since it had some rot in and I figured I would rebuild it over the winter. I figured it was just from people crawling in from the water over the years. WRONG! While messing around in the bilge I noticed that the battery was moving a little too easy. I started pushing on it and it fell over with the battery tray still attached. SH**! I took a screwdriver and stuck in one of the holes only to have it go all the way through.

Today... I pulled the gas tank to try and assess the situation and here is what I found.

I have a ton of questions I am going to need everyone's help with but want to make sure I get them all down before I post.

Bottom line... the floor on the stbd side is toast. The stringer was powder. The stringers and bulkhead had all de-laminated from the hull. The port stringer and the bulkhead were solid as a rock. I drilled into them with a hole saw and it was good. I have a feeling that someone did not seal the screws for the battery tray that is how the water got in. The knees are both super solid. The floor back where it attaches to the transom seems to be solid. I did pull a tie hook, speedo mount, and motor mounting bolt to see if the transom was mush and it all looked real good. Not sure how the stringers delaminated.... BUT, this is the Kunkel boat that had the HUGE V8 on it and was one of the first 'flites off the line (at least that is what I was told by Jason Kunkel). The only thing I can think of is that the rotted stbd stringer was gone and the rest of the assembly could not take the stress and delaminated.

Other than this, the boat is near perfect. So I am definitely going to fix it. I am just trying to figure out if I have the ability to do it or if I need to get someone to do it.

So where to start.....?

 

[jmshipp]

back on it....

I finally have gotten the time to get back on this. I can say, it you are doing something like this and dont have a multi/oscillating tool.... BUY ONE and get a carbide blade for it. Cuts through the fiberglass like butter and gets in the tight areas around the transom with ease. For the long cuts on the floor I still used the circ saw...

Here is where I am at now. Everything is cut out and I prepping the fiberglass core to be prepped for the new stringers to get glassed in.

- Do I need to grind/sand all of the fiberglass until it is smooth? You can see in the pictures that it looks like a basket weave. In the second picture is a place where I did sand it smooth, but I feel like I am getting to close to the core.

- Do I need to wipe down the whole inside to get rid of all of the white stuff? If so, what should I use? Seems like when I hit it with a wet rag, it goes away and comes right back after it drys.

Thanks.... hoping to pick the pace back up and get this thing finished by the middle of April. Got the new engine now and I am JONESING to get back out there.

Thanks for your help!