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200 Black Max idle problem

LilSki

LilSki

Member
OK everything was going fine until about a week ago. Then it started to get hard to start. It still ran fine wide open and once you got it going it ran ok.

Then it started to die out at and idle. It also would "lean sneeze" every now and then at idle. At this point I replaced the fuel pump, all the fuel filters, fuel bulb, and the little 1/4 turn fuel adapter. All this has done nothing. I put a new set of plugs in today with no help.

Then today I try it after a week of sitting and it will not fire down on the ramp. So I pull it out and put it on a set of muffs. It still would not start until I pumped the fuel bulb about 100 more times then it started to kick over. Once I get it running it would run fine for about 30 seconds and start to die out again. You can rev it and keep it going but as soon as you start to get down to 1000 rpm it wants to die.

So I fiddled with the idle adjustment a bit and got it to run so I can see if it will still run wide open. I get out there and find it still runs great flat out and cruising around. As soon as I bring it down near 1000 rpm it wants to die. And if it does die when it is hot it is near impossible to get going again. I pumped the fuel bulb 1000 times even though it is still hard. I pump the key while cranking and if it happens to fire it will lean sneeze and as long as you keep it above 1000 rpm it will run fine.

The motor has 120 psi of compression on all cylinders and ive checked 100 times it has spark and it has strong spark.

And after all this time when it does fire up it is not flooded. It is loaded with oil as it smokes a ton but there is no fuel in the cylinders it seems. And you always have to have the throttle open for it to fire off. It will not start with the throttle at full idle.

The only thing I can think of to do next is change all the fuel lines. The ones on the boat itself look pretty old but I can't see it running good wide open if the fuel lines were bad.

Oh I've also had the carbs apart twice with no dirt or grim of any kind in them. I'm on my last legs with this thing and I'm ready to just kill it.

If you can think of anything that I haven't thaought of much would be appreciated.

Kevin
 
You said everything was fine until about a week ago. How much had it been run before that? I mean, were you running it every weekend all season with no problems until a week ago when everything went downhill?

Or are you like me and run your boat 2-3 times a year?

If the last part is true, I hope you've drained the tank and put NEW gas in it. Whatever changes they've made to gasoline in the past year or two is killing everything. I couldn't tell you how many people have fuel 1-2 months old going bad in the tank around here.

I bet the small engine mechanics are making a killing. Everyone thinks their weedwhacker or lawn mower is broken, but it's really just bad fuel.

Environmentalists Suck.
 
Well the boat sat for 2 years before this. I got it a few months ago now. I drained the tank when I got it and the carbs were empty already. It ran great for 3 or 4 weeks then started doing this. I use the boat about 3 or 4 times a week.

One cab was leaking so I did rebuild the carbs about 2 weeks ago but it ran great for one more week. Then it did this last week and I pulled the carbs again just to make sure everything was fine and it was.

I was thinking I was getting an air leak somewhere but I ran it while spraying carb cleaner all over the reed block with no change. The only thing that makes my scrath my head is that if you pump the fuel bulb even while running it really doesn't make a difference.

A friend who is a boat mechanic told me to check the check ball in the tank which may be restricting the fuel flow. Other than that there is nothng else I can think of.

EDIT: The last thing I can think of trying is running it off a 5 gal tank. If I am geting water in the gas I can see it causing this. Even though I do have a water seperator between the tank and the motor.

Thanks
 
todays fuel pulls water out of the air due to the alcohol in it, it absorbs it. the filters can clog up really fast but i am not convinced that is the issue. i would try running it off another small tank just to try that (after changing the filters again). i am not a mechanic but it sounds like something is clogged somewhere like a jet (if ob's have them).

how about timing? i would think ob motors have a timing adjustment. if it is getting fuel and spark and compression is good i would check the timing to be sure it is in range.
 
Well after a looong discussion with a friend today going over the symptoms that it is indeed related to the ignition system.

Shown below is a picture of the timing advance module (or idle stabilizer) located on top of the #2 cylinder. I was snooping around and saw the positive lead to look in bad shape. I remove the box and the wire crumbles to where you see it now. This apparently is what controls the timing at low speed and without the black and red leads connected you will not get any spark. So everytime I checked for spark it must have just been working at that point. Because now without it I definatly have no spark.

100_0341.jpg
 
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good deal lilski

corrosion can really be a pain when troubleshooting. as an engine vibrates it could making or loosing connections. wow, good find. you should be back on the water in no time.
 
My idle stabilization module was removed during a recent rebuild. Timing advance is currently set @23 degrees and she idles great.
 
Well I had more time today to mess with it and throw the muimeter at the stator and didn't like some of the numbers it gave me. So I decided to throw a second stator in there. A friend had one from his old 200 laying around but couldn't remember how it ran. I threw it in and it fires up great now. But a few cylinders cut out on the top end. This is all with the stabilizer removed. So I am going to get a new stator this week. But it does fire up instantly the second you touch the key but just wont run well on the top end. So between the two stators I have one that won't idle but runs flat out. And one that will idle but won't run over 4000 rpm. So at this point I think I'm about to get a full set of electronics for it. New stator, switch boxes, rectifier, etc. and hopefully avoid any future problems. I know it will cost some money but the piece of mind may be worth it at this point. And if the motor didn't run so strong and have such good compression at 130 psi (re-tested with a proper calibrated gauge) I wouldn't waste the money but it runs so strong I think it is worth it.
 
Definatly the stator was bad. Changed it out today and it ran like a dream. Fired up right away and had all my speed back. Coming in to dock under power is also a plus!

I can't wait to take it out around the island tomorrow night!!
 
Yeah I don't know why I was hell bent on it being a fuel problem. Maybe it was caused by the "expert" opinions of of my non mechanic friends.

Also it looks like they don't make the timing advance module anymore so I guess I'll set my top end timing without it. Becuase now that I think about it when I first got the boat it felt like it had that little extra power on the top end around 5000 rpm when the box still worked. I still got the same top speed but it didn't have that same hard pull at the top.

But in any case I've learned my lesson not to be so hard headed when it comes to troubleshooting problems on a boat ;)

Thanks again!!
 
Concerning the idle stabilizer or WOT advance module (whatever you call it), you said when you removed it, it had no spark at all, but many others remove theirs on purpose and it does not kill the spark at all.

Was it just coincidence, and really the stator that was bad?
 
Checker7 said:
Concerning the idle stabilizer or WOT advance module (whatever you call it), you said when you removed it, it had no spark at all, but many others remove theirs on purpose and it does not kill the spark at all.

Was it just coincidence, and really the stator that was bad?
Click to expand...


You just revived a 7 year old thread Bud.Don't think he's going to answer you.
 
keith4216 said:
Flux capacitor turning the prop backwards on a full moon?
Click to expand...



Only with age, observation, character, experience, and wisdom, can one directly hit the nail on the head so precisely. And, if I may be so bold, Sun spot activity can and will also effect the low speed/ high speed changeover rpm coefficient in the stator. Especially on vintage factory electronics. The newer CDI stuff has the doomaflatchie encased in the usual smoke but layered in nitrus and TC 5 injection oil. With these modifications over the mere factory components, one can use the next larger sized capacitor. Works like a charm. I know because I've seen the smoke and oil.
 
Gee guys, thanks for all the help.

Guess boating season must be over where you're at and you guys must be pretty bored to be reading a seven year old post to the end with apparently no need or interest to learn from the topic.

I could care less if the topic was 1000 years old, if it's relevant to my current problem, there may be someone else who understands my question and can answer it.

And funny you mention it, but I have seen electrical problems and failures manifest on equipment during times of solar flares, which is well documented.
 
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Checker7 said:
Concerning the idle stabilizer or WOT advance module (whatever you call it), you said when you removed it, it had no spark at all, but many others remove theirs on purpose and it does not kill the spark at all.

Was it just coincidence, and really the stator that was bad?
Click to expand...

LilSki has not posted in a couple of years. No one can really answer if his stator was bad or not. I'm trying to learn about merc 200s so I read most posts concerning them.

If you have a question about yours, throw it up in a new thread and I'm sure you'll get a few legitimate replies.
 
1. You're heartily welcome.
2. Boating season over? Never.
3. What is the real question? (remember to insert symptoms of sick motor)
4, Also with age, observation, character, experience, and wisdom, one might appreciate the humor in reviving a seven year old thread. We did. Please calm thyself. I myself have revived an old thread or too.
5. In point of fact, you read a seven year old thread to the end. What do you
think the chances are concerning a response from the original poster? I'm thinking single digits.
6. Responses with disdain, sarcasm, and a certain level of persnickety-ness may not be met with alacrity.
 
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