2100 BR questions for you

[boatn70]

So, I took my "new to me" 2100BR out today and expected more that I was able to get for speed. Here is what I know:
2013 2100BR
250 proXS
bow has no cover
27 Bravo prop 73mph
27 Tempest 74mph
Prop shaft aprox 1" below the pad
13.5" setback

I cannot say I was able to look at the tach at the best of speeds but I know I was seeing 5800or so to the best of my knowledge. Im sure I am off between the props but I just couldnt look I was too busy learning to drive that thing.
I did get it on the pad and had it up, i know this because it was a real handful until I did get it to fly then it was much better. I know with more time the driving will ber easier once I learn the "feel" but.......
I was really expecting more and would LOVE some more input!! Please....

Kevin

 

[Glenn Kornett]

I'm sure some members with the same boat and engine will reply with more accurate data. Does that 250ProXS have a sportsmaster or Torquemaster lower unit? If it is a Sportsmaster that might be causing the excessive slippage. I have 2020 Pulsare 2400 with a 300R (TM2 lower) and it will turn a 24 Bravo FS to around 6350 - 6400 at around 74 mph. My boat is this slow due to the weight and the bottom design. I have 10" of setback and the 2400 does not have a pad like yours and is not quite as high a performance boat as yours is. However the slip is in the 8% - 10% range and even with a 24 ProMax at 6350 rpm and 76 mph the slip is still similar. What gears are in your lower unit? Your slip is 13% - 14% if you have 1.75 gears, which is not terrible but a bit high. Of course if you have 1.85 gears it is not quite that high. Learning to fly it, does make a difference. If you can control the walking, and get it trimmed right it will likely run faster. Sounds like you are doing well for the first few attempts. I don't think you are that far off for a 250 HP.

 

[boatn70]

Thanks Glen,
it is a 1.75 gear, I am not sure which gear case it is but that leads me to another question. I have old hubs and props for my old 225efi motor....same hubs that fit my bravo drive on the IO and my old mercs in the past. The shaft on this lower units seems to be larger than those old hubs??
there is a tag on the lower that is printed: 12 x 21 and 1.75:1. I get the 1.75 but am not sure what the 12 x 21 means.

 

[boatn70]

heres what I am talking about

 

[boatn70]

I like that fact I can attach photos now. This one is not aired out enough but wanted to share.

 

[Glenn Kornett]

That picture is a Torquemaster 2 lower unit. 12 x 21 are the number of teeth on each gear in the lower unit. If you divide 21 / 12 = 1.75.
The Torquemaster is equipped with a 1.25" diameter prop shaft often referred to as the "fatshaft". Your previous engine and the Bravo had a 1" prop shaft. If the prop you are using has removeable hub, you can take it out and use it on most other Mercury props that you might want to try. The Torquemaster lower often will slip if run as high as yours, so have you tried to run the engine lower like 2" below the pad? Do you have a hydraulic jack plate so you can easily change the height on the fly? If so bump it down a bit and see if the speed increases due to less slippage? If it is a manual plate, you might want to lower it 1/2" and try again and if the speed increases, lower it again. Is your water pressure OK with the Torquemaster that high?

 

[Glenn Kornett]

I like that fact I can attach photos now. This one is not aired out enough but wanted to share.

I am only guessing looking at the picture. The rooster tail is a bit too high. The angle of the motor should be more vertical but the boat higher out of the water. It appears that the trim is not lifting the boat as much as it should. That can happen when the engine height is too high and you will lose lift because you lose leverage. Not saying that is definitely what is happening here, but it is a possibility. Does it run faster trimmed out less? Again, it would be worth it to test with a lower the engine height.
It is not a good picture of my boat, but I was about 3.75" below and trimmed out almost to the max which was a bit too much causing a 1-2 mph speed loss.

 

[boatn70]

Good suggestion, I was continually jacking it higher and I did gain speed and the ability to get it on the pad some. It is hydraulic.
Thanks for the input on the drive, I was thinking that but was not positive.

Heres one of a couple videos of it running yesterday

 

[boatn70]

another

enjoy!

 

[Glenn Kornett]

It looks better on the videos than the fixed picture. If you gained speed by raising the engine, then it probably likes that height. Does it run faster at that engine height and chine walk less with less positive engine trim? My boat definitely chine walks less with a 24 ProMax prop versus a 24 Bravo FS prop. I can run the ProMax prop at least 1/2"+ higher and at that height there is very little chine walk to correct. I don't think you are far off. I think there is another member who put a 300R on his 21 Pulsare and is running around 80 mph. I would have to look up the posts but I almost recall that he had a 225 HP before and ran around 70 mph, so you might not be that far off. Once you have more seat time and / or a different prop and get the chine walking more subdued it will also run faster if it is not walking and you can let it stretch its legs for at least 30 - 60 seconds or more.

 

[boatn70]

Well it seemed like I had to trim it to the sky to get on the pad or it would walk like crazy. I was thinking I heard these hulls would run close to, in not, 80 mph with a 250. I will do some searching.

 

[boatn70]

Heres some reading I did, I also talked with Randy Corson for a bit. Maybe its just the lower unit that is giving me some issues.

https://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?243231-New-Pulsare-2100BR-speeds&highlight=2100br

 

[Glenn Kornett]

Randy is definitely the expert to talk to. I did find a few posts of people claiming mid 70's with a 225HP. Did Randy say he used the Trophy prop on the 2100 Pulsares? I know that was his go to prop on the 2400 Pulsares with a 300XS 2 stroke. Many members claimed the boat handled better with the Trophy (less chine walk) but I have never tried one since it is a small diameter for the 300R. Is your 250 PRO XS a 2 stroke or 4 stroke? What is the maximum rated rpm for it? If it is 6200 rpm have you tried a 26 P to get the rpm up some? You are at 74 mph, and some people claim to have gone 80 mph with the optimum set up, and prop and probably very cool weather. That sounds like a big difference but with more seat time, you might gain 2 mph, and with the best prop or a labbed prop another 2 mph and then you would be close. I think one guy gained 1 mph with a bow cover on a 2100. They typically switch to a Sportsmaster lower unit after 80 mph, but Randy would know if it is faster on a 2100 running mid 70's if you can jack the Sportsmaster higher where they are recommended to run.

 

[boatn70]

Yeah, my old boat ran 1 to 2 better with a bow cover and that was only at 67-68mph, pulse 210 with 225. Randy did suggest a Trophy, not positive on trophy or plus...not even sure the difference. Motor manual states 5500-6000rpm, not even sure if theres a limiter on it, its 2 stroke. He did say that the TM was a restriction due to motor height and water pick up. I didnt seem to loose water press. with the jack up at about 80% (I need to measure location of prop shaft still)

 

[Glenn Kornett]

The Trophy might help it a bit, or at least make it easier to drive. When you said 1" below, that was why I asked you if the water pressure was still OK? The TM has 3 water inlets on the bottom of the torpedo and those 3 on each side under the wing. At 1" below those 3 on each side might be sucking air, but since your water pressure was fine, perhaps the additional set back keeps them covered? Keep trying, get more seat time, play with the trim and engine height as you have been, and try and find a Trophy (they are cheap used). You will need one that accepts your current fatshaft prop hubs. I think the Trophy Plus has more cup and a smaller barrel so you would have to check if it will take a fatshaft hub. Some older ones had fixed hubs. The Trophy Plus also has adjustable vents for holeshot, I believe. The standard Trophy has less cup and thinner blades and you can usually spin one pitch higher than the Trophy Plus but not sure if it is faster or slips more, ask Randy which one works the best on the 2100.

 

[Grasa]

Get a Bow Cover - you will gain easily 2-4 MPH and a few hundred RPMs. Mine is just a Sumbrella snap on bow cover with a center pole. Also, when you run the Torquemaster too high you start losing prop bite and will slow you down. Trim angle is also important, too much or not enought will also slow you down. Try the Fury 3B, Tempest Plus 3B and Promax 4B. Be aware that for TM/submerged gearcase applications 3B props are usually the fastest.

 

[karzrus]

Randy ran the 27P Trophy Plus on a 300xs Sportmaster at 14" of setback( custom Bob's 10" setback bracket with 5" of built in lift and 4" sliding hydraulic jack plate) With the prop shaft 1-2" above the pad at the top of the travel, he could get the 2100 closed deck to 96-98 mph. His location puts him at sea level where the motor runs best from the heavy air.

The guys that had/have his boats and some others ( like "Badback" on this forum who don't visit much anymore) copied his recipe are the sources for this.

Boatn70
I really like the colors/graphics of your boat. Nice find.

You likely need to get the propshaft higher, you likely have to plug some of the upper side water pickups on the TM to do it then watch your water pressure as you lift the motor. Minimum safe water pressure is ~ 5-6psi.

I'm not running the recipe. I only have a 10" hydraulic jack plate and the prop centreline is only even with the pad bottom at the top of the travel, I was planning to add the set back and set up mine to Randy's recipe, but have not so far. I have 27 Trophy Plus props and a 250Pro XS TM. I also only get to about 75mph and the boat turns into a handful. Everything I have read and been told is the extra set back and the right four blade prop at the right height helps with chine walk. Having the bow covered and the windshield closed help too.

 

[JW]

With a 225 Promax at 6” setback and 23” Tempest and no bow cover, I was 68 gps. With 10” setback and bow cover, my boat gained quite a bit. No other changes than those two I had 74 mph gps. Torque master gearcase. Propshaft 4” below the pad.
What TOTALLY helped with chine walk was the solid mount Promax. Zero chine walk with the motor locked down solid top and bottom. Dual cable steering adjusted tightly.

 

[TMR]

I wonder how much the reduction in chine walk is influenced by having the prop deeper in the water bellow the pad?

I run my Merc 225 efi at 3.5 inches below the pad on my 2100BR. Only 65mph gps with a 23 pitch Trophy plus, 5.5 inches of setback, and Sea Star dual cable hydraulic steering. Zero chine walk even all the way trimmed out. Picked up a pre-owned 25 pitch Trophy Plus new in box. Hoping to see low 70mph range with it.

 

[karzrus]

Pretty hard to get above 65mph with that much prop and leg in the water and I don't think you have enough hull out of the water under 65mph to have a chine walk problem anyway, my experience the fun starts at 65+.

My boat doesn't start to chine walk till after 65mph, depending on how it's trimmed that can be delayed to about 72.