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Driving my Senator is it normal.. Opinions please

ram750

ram750

Member
Alright , so let me try and explain what I feel behind the wheel the best way I can because I think its a little tricky to drive this thing ...

A little about the boat:
1988 Senator , Custom Edition 454 / Bravo 1 , 25 Pitch Mirage SS , Benneth Tabs ...

Basically I find that the boat is real touchy and requires alot of Trim and Tab correction thru the ride. On rough water condition I find myself throtle-ing alot to keep the boat in or not too far out of the water. In case of rough water I usually have the nose down a little with the tabs and the drive not quite leveled to maintain 40 to 45 mph speed , if I bring the tabs up the boats really coast to high on the crest of the waves and gets side to side happy ... If I point the nose down to much it rides hard and tries to follow the waves .... And if I bring the drive straight I find that it gets airbone real easy !

Am I doing something wrong ?

I usually start like this : Get on plane , full trim tabs out and drive all the way down , pull the drive up a little , bring tabs in little by little and then pull the drive up almost to middle.The whole time listening to the engine as its easy to ear when you relesing some pressur. Should I try a different order of events ?

On clear water I find it rather nice but still sketchy , I will get on plane , pulls tabs up completely and then pull the drive till I can get top RPM's going ... I have posted pictures and the boat really travels on the last 2-3' of the hull....

Also when coming down from 50mph or higher thru deceleration I get MASSIVE purposing , MASSIVE ! I have sorta figured how to catch the boat before it gets there but it involves bringing the drive down and pushing the nose in with the tabs ... all of this with a shot of throtle.

I am wondering if all this is normal , before I add a 210 Sport Baja and obviously not as fast but much simpler to drive around...
 
First and foremost, inspect the mechanical components for proper operation, (gimbal ring, hydraulics, sticky trim tabs, sloppy steering, the whole 9 yards) if these are all in optimum shape, then you should be ok on full speed runs.

When I teach folks how to drive, I teach them to pull the tabs up, drives down accelerate to about 3k, trim the drive up where it's "comfortable", only use the tabs if they are absolutely necessary, and the bare minimum, I try to use them as an extension of the boat, not to level out a vessel that has weight miss-apportioned.

Then, trim for optimum rpm/speed, this should set you up for a stable full throttle run nicely. Once you learn how the vessel characteristics, you will habitually come to the same running stance time and time again.

Begin by bringing up the throttle at a deliberate slow pace say 500 rpms a pop (so you won’t have a “moment”) and trim for optimum rpm/speed, keep doing this until you have reached max rpm and max speed. (Note: you will reach a point where the rpm increases and the speed decreases) at this point you are over trimmed, and when you slow down you may porpoise. (If your hydraulic trim is set up correctly, you should not be able to trim above the operational limits of the drive.) See first and foremost!

Also, I have seen a lot of folks try to run full throttle in conditions that the vessel cannot do safely, naturally this is a combination of the driver skill, and the boat’s capabilities, but don’t let that fool ya, seasoned offshore racers have “moments” too. Coming home safe should be a value and a goal for every boater.
 
Ok , first I think you just put the finger on one of my issue's ... On my last ride I noticed that the limit pot for the "trim" limit as moved or is now dead because I can trim it up into trailer mode without using the trailer button and just the trim switch... So I was trimming by the gauge while running and by feeling.

I have another issue , I realy on my GPS reading to achieve the "fastest" setup and not the pitot Speedo since for some reason it does not work on the water but works great with compressed air... Need to start a thread about that.

Anyhow I will try and set the limit pot properly , do you know of a how to for this ? and try your recommended trim method.

In all water condition you are running with the tabs full in ?

About the rough water situation and running I know not to push to hard but I just find that its perticurlarly stable even @ 40 mph ... I watch my old baja often run side by side with me.
 
I don't have tabs on mine. I don't think I need them. I have a 350ci in mine. With a light load ( 2-3 people ) mine pops on plane in seconds with a 23p prop. I drive by feel and the tach. I get running and start trimming until it smooths out. That's about 3/4 throttle. Once trimmed I throttle wide open and watch the speed. I play with the trim to a happy speed at about 46- 4800 rpms. To much trim it looses bite and slows down the boat. Mine on gps has seen 63 mph.
 
Don's89 Senator said:
I don't have tabs on mine. I don't think I need them. I have a 350ci in mine. With a light load ( 2-3 people ) mine pops on plane in seconds with a 23p prop. I drive by feel and the tach. I get running and start trimming until it smooths out. That's about 3/4 throttle. Once trimmed I throttle wide open and watch the speed. I play with the trim to a happy speed at about 46- 4800 rpms. To much trim it looses bite and slows down the boat. Mine on gps has seen 63 mph.
Click to expand...

mine top 60 or so. so that should be it for a 350.

i have a 21 mirage and a 21 ballistic.

with the ballistic it's a bit more top end. more propwater than with the mirage.

top end i do on the feeling with the boat. i don't know why you should have tabs on a senator small block

a friend of mine dennis has a senator with a big block and that will move the weight backwards and he has tabs. he needs it he said.

gr helmich
holland EU
 
I agree with the top speed trimming techniques for running on the smooth stuff , but for the ones with simular hulls to the Senator and Big Block is it normal to be playing with the trim and tabs to prevent purposing on the way down from speeds pass's ?
 
I don't know how big your senator is but on my 259 when i slow down from a high speed run the first thing I do is trim down. I start to trim down and pull back the throttle at the same time. the trim is down before I start to really get slowed down. If I slow down with the trim up it will porpose. It might be something to try because my 219 was similar.
 
Ok , good will try and make that an habit ! I would usually wait to long I think and by the time the boat ad started to drop its ass in the water I was porposing everywhere ! Specially in rough water , after the second time out I started to trim down during the deceleration add trim tabs to the mix It would usually start to put the nose up but then a little throtle and I would save myself the porposing.

BTW the senator are barely 20' long , I measured mine rouglhy on the ground and from tip to transom it gives 19' ... And its got a Big Block with a bravo stuck to the back ....
 
My Liner is 21ft with only 500lbs of outboard on the back and I have to suck the trim in wehen slowing down or it will porpoise pretty good. Doesn't do it until I'm going pretty slow though. Doesn't bother me too much but its there and I know how to get rid of it.
 
I have the porposing down now... Still wondering if its normal that its this sensitive to tab adjustment en tri adjustment ... Does a simular purpose boat act the same Baja bandits or scarab's ?
 
You've got a relatively short hull, a big engine, and most of the weight is at the very back. My old Starlet (18') with a small block was very similar - I'm pretty sure it's the exact same hull the Senator was just stretched a little. You constantly adjusted the trim unless the water was glassy flat. I don't know about the Ballistic prop, but when I switched from a three blade Mirage to a four blade Turbo it really helped settle the boat down when crossing wakes and such.
 
Yes , thats what I think , really ass heavy and short ! I feel that its pitch sensitive ... I am very very use to CG and reaction to weight distribution since I have alot of experience with model aircraft 40-50 and up lbs airplanes ... That how I feel it should drive... but Wanted to confirm I was not doing it wrong.

BTW what do you meen ballistic prop ?
 
Super clean boat! I have the same color scheme, and I wish it looked as good as yours.

My Senator has the OMC 460 big block. I was out today in 2-3'. I didn't use the tabs, but I was constantly adjusting throttle and trim. I'm finally figuring out how to drive that boat. Just keep trying different things till you figure out how she likes it...

If I do use the tabs (rare) I only drop them an inch or two if it is really rough.

I'm waiting for the pics from today to get emailed. I aired it out nicely a few times, trying to keep up with rjstarr's Convinsor.
 
^ Wow !!! Same here !

I could just copy paste your reply and its exactly how my last day out was ! I tried to pull the tabs up and keep hem in all day but the water was SUPER rough , 3-4' waves everywhere , incredible traffic and large Cargo Vessels crossing right in the middle of it all !

I figured out a little more how to drive it with some stick time , needs lots of trim adjustment and a little help from the tabs when really rough ... I am even getting a little Evel knievel and left the water a good 2 foot ! :eyecrazy: maybe a little much , will try to fly lower in the futur !

Thanks for the feedback and its cool to see almost the same boat has mine !

So more parked pics next to my buddies 38topGun
DSCF7631.jpg
 
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