Sale's are down

[john lamon]

I was at my dealer yesterday and out of curiosity asked him how many mates he sells, in 08' he sold 6 and in 09 he sold 1, the deal on that one was technically made in 08' by the PO of my boat, so really he didn't sell any last year, our economy is still pretty good here but is showing signs of decline.

His pontoon sales are still high he say's mainly because more people can afford them, the average age of a someone buying a new mate here is around 55, and one thing that both him and me don't understand is the younger people don't find the mates appealing, they all want a big v-drive wakeboard boat with 500hp that does 45mph, I don't get it, you would pay 80 or 90 k for a wakeboard boat like that here. just think of what kind of mate you could get for that amount of money.

 

[Big Red]

I was at my dealer yesterday and out of curiosity asked him how many mates he sells, in 08' he sold 6 and in 09 he sold 1, the deal on that one was technically made in 08' by the PO of my boat, so really he didn't sell any last year, our economy is still pretty good here but is showing signs of decline.

His pontoon sales are still high he say's mainly because more people can afford them, the average age of a someone buying a new mate here is around 55, and one thing that both him and me don't understand is the younger people don't find the mates appealing, they all want a big v-drive wakeboard boat with 500hp that does 45mph, I don't get it, you would pay 80 or 90 k for a wakeboard boat like that here. just think of what kind of mate you could get for that amount of money.

Their are a lot of younger people into wakeboarding thats the trend now and a Checkmate sucks for that. I am very surprised that his average age crowd of buying a Checkmate is 55.

 

[Jetmate]

I guess Checkmate needs to offer a some items for the younger set. Seems like a cheaper priced wake board boat would be a smart idea. Checkmate should be able to do that between 30 to 50 Thousand.

Once you capture the youth group, there is a good chance you'll keep them for life. That's pretty much how it is for me. What say you all?

 

[john lamon]

Their are a lot of younger people into wakeboarding thats the trend now and a Checkmate sucks for that. I am very surprised that his average age crowd of buying a Checkmate is 55.

I understand that a boat designed for wakeboarding is gonna work better than a CM for wakeboarding, but most guy's I see in these boats just cruise around with wakeboards on the tower and the big speakers mounted on the tower with the stereo cranked, you never actually see them wakeboarding, I think they just think these style boats look cool or something.

 

[yellowfiero88]

What say you all?

Tho I think towers are very ugly, however they have their advantages and are very usefull. I personally could not see checkmate making a wakeboarding boat but if the market calls for it, then they should. If they make something that people like, as they get older or taste change, the quality of the mate sticks in their head and that could steer them back to a checkmate for repeat sales. I do however think that the market is very tough in that area and it would be hard to get going. Names like master craft, ski natique, and a couple others are BIG and very well respected. Heck I almost bought a master craft instead of my 21' enchanter.

 

[JW]

I'll bet a ZT230 with some fat sacks in the back could make as big or bigger waves than a dedicated wake-board boat.

Tell your dealer not to feel too bad, I've polled some local dealers here and it's the same story for Malibu, Four Winns, Glastron.

 

[Jetmate]

Tho I think towers are very ugly, however they have their advantages and are very usefull. I personally could not see checkmate making a wakeboarding boat but if the market calls for it, then they should. If they make something that people like, as they get older or taste change, the quality of the mate sticks in their head and that could steer them back to a checkmate for repeat sales. I do however think that the market is very tough in that area and it would be hard to get going. Names like master craft, ski natique, and a couple others are BIG and very well respected. Heck I almost bought a master craft instead of my 21' enchanter.

Checkmate would have to market the boat using the model name first, ie. "Wake Nautique by Checkmate.

 

[Chris]

Guys, the entire marine industry is on life-support because of the recession.

Saying that one type of boat or another is selling well, really has to be taken and put into context.

I often post little boating news tid-bits on Endless Boating and if you've read any of the stories, it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

Genmar is in bankruptcy court, which encompasses something like 20 brands, Fountain is bankrupt, Donzi was sold off to investors, Mercury are discontinuing some brands and closing plants, laying off workers and the stories goes on and on.

If ski boats are selling, I can link you to an article where Mastercraft laid off 110 employees.

Or another article where the NMMA estimated that 50% of the marine industry was unemployed.

I think things are slowly coming around now, but it's a year and a half later and many manufacturer's are either gone or are on shakey ground.

-Chris

 

[Big Red]

I think things are slowly coming around now, but it's a year and a half later and many manufacturer's are either gone or are on shakey ground.

-Chris

I agree, I also don't feel any boats are selling better than others. I watch the used market and their is just as many of one kind as the other for sale.

I do not believe wake boats are selling better because that's a younger generation boat and their jobs were lost first. And them boys blow their money without thinking and they were hit hard first.


I don not believe things are coming around business are still closing. Wait and watch what happens when the people's unemployment stops and the ones that got paid to go to school get out and still can't find a job.

And my damn Health insurance just went up again thanks to or Historical clown as a president that says he is fixing that. Its went up a total of 3 times since he has been in.

November 2008 I was paying 840.00 a month
January 2009 I was paying 923.00 a month
September 2009 a increase 1024.00
And WTF January 2010 it went to 1209.00 a month

Do you know what kind of boat I could own for 1209.00 a month. Our country is going to hell.

 

[yellowfiero88]

If ski boats are selling, I can link you to an article where Mastercraft laid off 110 employees.

I just got a email from mastercraft saying they are selling 2009, 2008, and even 2007 models still. I thought it was up to $10k off the 07's. I can remember when they were $19k on a custom built trailer.

The prices are so high on new boats that its hard for the average joe to buy one. It don't matter, $50k+ for a new boat is outragous. I am not saying its not worth it but in the economy where people are losing jobs left and right or taking pay cuts to maintain employment that is out of line. This is where buying an older boat and restoring it is the way to go. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a 230, 240, or a 2400 here. Its not a necessity and @ the prices, I am 100% happy with my old enchanter!

 

[Check This]

Guys, Hydrostream tried it with an IO and it flopped. The Wakeboard boat is a special community dominated by Ski - Nautique Mastercraft -- Tigue -- Maliibu -- Its cult like. C/M would be better to stay where they are and stick it out.
That's my .02 cents

 

[CheckmateFever]

Checkmate would have to market the boat using the model name first, ie. "Wake Nautique by Checkmate.

No no, the could call the boat the "Wake-Mate", you know to go along with the old "Ski-mate", or V-mate, or Jet-mate...you get the idea LOL .
Seriously tho, i would not like to see Checkmate go the wake boarding route, but it's a sad fact those boats sell pretty well. Like i said in another post, i went to central NY's big Syracuse Boat Show last year and it was loaded with wake boarding boats, i was very disapointed. At a show where performace go-fast boats used to rule years ago, now everything has to have a big ugly, guady as hell towers on them, times have changed! Hopefully the performace boat market will bounce back in full force but i don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[Check This]

Guys, the entire marine industry is on life-support because of the recession.

Saying that one type of boat or another is selling well, really has to be taken and put into context.

I often post little boating news tid-bits on Endless Boating and if you've read any of the stories, it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

Genmar is in bankruptcy court, which encompasses something like 20 brands, Fountain is bankrupt, Donzi was sold off to investors, Mercury are discontinuing some brands and closing plants, laying off workers and the stories goes on and on.

If ski boats are selling, I can link you to an article where Mastercraft laid off 110 employees.

Or another article where the NMMA estimated that 50% of the marine industry was unemployed.

I think things are slowly coming around now, but it's a year and a half later and many manufacturer's are either gone or are on shakey ground.

-Chris

This Recession is worse then the time a congressman from Ohio named Howard Meztenbaum brought legislation to the floor of the house called the so called (Luxury tax) it eventually became law. This single handley almost put all boat mfg's out of bizz during the 80's. Now we have Obama who is taxing away and doing the same without the specifics of targeting an industry.

 

[ezstriper]

by the time we get thru this there are going to be fewer boat manufactures left in business..a simular thing hit in 89...and I don't think if checkmate had a wakeboard boat released today it would help...most of those sales are name branded....Rob

 

[Master Wrench]

Guys, the entire marine industry is on life-support because of the recession.

Saying that one type of boat or another is selling well, really has to be taken and put into context.

I often post little boating news tid-bits on Endless Boating and if you've read any of the stories, it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

Genmar is in bankruptcy court, which encompasses something like 20 brands, Fountain is bankrupt, Donzi was sold off to investors, Mercury are discontinuing some brands and closing plants, laying off workers and the stories goes on and on.

If ski boats are selling, I can link you to an article where Mastercraft laid off 110 employees.

Or another article where the NMMA estimated that 50% of the marine industry was unemployed.

I think things are slowly coming around now, but it's a year and a half later and many manufacturer's are either gone or are on shakey ground.

-Chris

Chris is right on. It got so bad out here that when I was a Donzi and Proline dealer and they closed up I couldnt even service my customers parts needs or sales needs. We were as low at one time as offereing 20% below what we even payed for the boats to try and get them off our floor plan! People were still complaining that was to high! Its tuff out there if you dont have a good parts dept. or service dept. Were looking and taking different steps in other avenues to help keep the doors open. Dealers in our area are dropping like flies!

 

[Chris]

by the time we get thru this there are going to be fewer boat manufactures left in business..a simular thing hit in 89...and I don't think if checkmate had a wakeboard boat released today it would help...most of those sales are name branded....Rob

Sadly, it's already happened Rob.

At this point, it's easier to name a company that has either gone through bankruptcy or is bankrupt, or has been bought or sold etc. then it is to name a company that is on solid ground.

Genmar's bankruptcy alone encompassed something like 20 brands.

There were points in time, where some people were even speculating that Mercury Marine might go bankrupt.

As far as the wakeboard idea goes for Checkmate, they have an optional wakeboard tower available for many of the models. But they'll never be a serious player unless they go full out and add ballast tanks, heaters and wrap around seating etc.

-Chris

 

[Chris]

Chris is right on. It got so bad out here that when I was a Donzi and Proline dealer and they closed up I couldnt even service my customers parts needs or sales needs. We were as low at one time as offereing 20% below what we even payed for the boats to try and get them off our floor plan! People were still complaining that was to high! Its tuff out there if you dont have a good parts dept. or service dept. Were looking and taking different steps in other avenues to help keep the doors open. Dealers in our area are dropping like flies!

Funny story, well not really...

Anyway, one of my collegues at work went to the Toronto Boat Show and got all excited at some of the deals. So he calls me up to run them by me and get my opinion as he knows I'm a "boat-a-holic".

First deal, he says, I saw a Larson for 15K with a trailer, I/O etc. So he says, whaddaya think? I said, well ya, sounds like a nice deal, but did the dealer mention that Larson is basically bankrupt? My buddy says, whadda ya mean Larson is bankrupt? Yup, they're bankrupt bud.

So he says, how bout this deal then...

A 17' Four Winns with an I/O and trailer for about the same price. Umm, yeah, also bankrupt was my response. What he says? Yup, also gone.

So then we go through the inevitable denial conversation where he tells me I'm mistaken. Umm, maybe, but dont' think so I respond. So then he starts telling me he's pondering just going ahead anyway. So I ask him, what about the hull warranty? Yeah, what about it he says? Umm, you most likely won't have one I said. Oh...

So he says, what do you recommend in that price range? My response, well, I guess maybe as much as I hate to say it, have you looked at the Bayliners? It'll give you that type of entry level pricing and you should hopefully be with one of the more stable companies warranty wise - at least as it stands today.

Anyways, you get the idea, the bottom line is things are pretty bad.

-Chris

 

[wca_tim]

Grady White is the only manufacturer around here that seems to be making boats right now and their parking lot is far from full (employee cars). things are tough all over - a lot tougher than many would like to have us believe. I'm far from starving and thank God every day that I've got a decent paying and very stable job, but it's getting tighter around my house as health insurance (esp copay and prescriptions), taxes, home insurance, grocery store prices, etc, etc, etc... go up. and tehre are a LOT of people out of work... I work from home fairly often - especially on days when my daughter is off school and I see an ever increasing number of people cruising the neighborhood with their kids because they are unemployed, laid off, underemployed, working part time, etc... at least 4 or 5 of them work(ed) in the boating industry...

I agree that breaking into the wakeboard, etc.. "market" would be a tough nut to crack.. there's a bunch of players there already. the fact of the matter is that people have scaled back on "luxury" items like boats and for those buying, there are an incredible number of really nice used set-ups for very little money...

The only manufactureres to make it through this are the ones that have been conservative financially and who are positioned welkl in their own market... oh and who are lucky. imho

Boat prices and prices for used parts, etc... are not going up... I'm still mulling over buying another project... and damn sure going to vote in the next election...

 

[xsive]

There were points in time, where some people were even speculating that Mercury Marine might go bankrupt.

-Chris

I don't know where you ebver heard that. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Mercury IS hands down Brunswick's most profitable business.

I don't know who ever these speculators are, but they obivously don't read and I would put them on my "ignore" list.

 

[Chris]

I don't know where you ebver heard that. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Mercury IS hands down Brunswick's most profitable business.

I don't know who ever these speculators are, but they obivously don't read and I would put them on my "ignore" list.

Well as you probably know, Mercury Marine is not an individual company on to itself, it's part of Brunswick Corporation. I suppose I should have said, that there was speculation that Brunswick might eventually go bankrupt, which Mercury Marine is a subsiduary of. And bankrupt as in chapter 11.

I think the speculaton at the time was, that "if" Brunswick Corporation's poor results continued, that it might eventually lead Brunswick to enter Chapter 11. I guess at that point, almost anything might have been possible.

The bottom line is that things weren't too good at Brunswick back in late '08, when their stock was hovering around $2 per share, down from $50 bucks per share in '05, giving them a market cap of about 175 million and their credit status was graded by Moody's as "junk" status.

-Chris