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Senator VS Scarab 22 VS Baja 223 Bandit

ram750

ram750

Member
Hi Guys ,

I currently have my Senator up for sale and if it moves I am looking at throwing down a few more dollars and going up a foot or two ... Nothing to do with more room required just look for better rough water handling.

What would you guys pick , here are the boats I can afford and tow behind my small Escape V6.... :shakehead:

Also main priority rough water handling !

-Scarab 22 1994 ish 350merc/alpha ... None with 454 in my price range...

-Baja Bandit 223 454/bravo

Or keep my Mate ! 454 , tabs , bravo !
 
Like you said you can't go to big since you have an escape. I wouldn't go any bigger than your senator and it all depends on how far you are pulling it. I would keep the mate IMO.
 
The rated maximum trailer wheight is 3500lbs so my Mate weighs in @ 2800lbs + Trailer and fuel , most likely right on that 3500#...

I really do not have any issue's pulling it.Right now I only haul to the launch about 2 miles away , when taking it out of the water I am always careful and pull slowly in lower gear. Everywhere around where I live is flat no hills or anything of sort.

Are you or anyone familiar with the 22 or 223 ? it am curious to know how much better they would do in ROUGH water and by rough I mean ROUGH !
 
Have you ever considered going up tp a 234 Persuader? A guy at my lake has a 22 scarab and it doesn't handle rough water much better than my old 21ft. starflite. But I have been in a 234 persuader on the same lake and it was night and day difference between it and my little flite. Or you could even look into a 220 Convincor, but I'm not sure how much you are looking at spending. Just throwing that out there........ But you had to know asking this question on a checkmate site that you were going to get either "keep yours" or "what about this checkmate" for answers. lol
 
There's a thread over on Scream and Fly about which 21'ish foot boat is best in the rough stuff.
 
Yeah I did expect the keep yours answer and I kind of like it too ! My problem is that the body of water that I am on gets really rough !!! this weekend before the storm there was 3 to 4 foot waves... Some serious stuff ! and in the storm it was easily 5 feet crashing in all directions !

I know I wont see this everyday and shouldn't buy a boat based on those once in a while condition but I would really like to know I have something that can take it !
 
The Baja Bandit 223 is more comparable to Baja H2X which now IS the Checkmate ZT244. I had a Baja Bandit 223 once and it is a decent boat but I’d rather have a Checkmate 234 Persuader, ZT240, Convincor 242. All of these will handle the rough better than the Baja 223 and will perform all around much better. Not to mention look better.

-Craig
 
Ram,

I would be very careful about towing a ZT 240, 244 or a Convincor 220 sized boat with an Escape. Also, you need to factor in the 1000lb trailer, gear, interior (not included in dry weight), fuel as you mentioned, beer (that is heavy;)), etc. That puts you way over weight.

I don't care how far you are going, I tow with a 3/4 Ton P/U and the ZT can make its presence known at times. Remember, it's not about towing, it is about stopping!

Your call, but my suggestion is stick with what you got.

HD
 
ram750 said:
Hi Guys ,

I currently have my Senator up for sale and if it moves I am looking at throwing down a few more dollars and going up a foot or two ... Nothing to do with more room required just look for better rough water handling.

What would you guys pick , here are the boats I can afford and tow behind my small Escape V6.... :shakehead:

Also main priority rough water handling !

-Scarab 22 1994 ish 350merc/alpha ... None with 454 in my price range...

-Baja Bandit 223 454/bravo

Or keep my Mate ! 454 , tabs , bravo !
Click to expand...

I'm in the same situation -- I have a vision 22 that I am loving, however I keep my mate wet in the NewEngland coastal waters where it gets quite rough on occasion {4 to 5 ftrs last weekend}.
So I too am contemplating a couple more feet just for better "rough water handling" and a little deeper freeboard -- then just keep my Vision 22 on the lakes.

Anyway, my research includes trying my friends different boats / also comparing what I've owned previously / and info's I've gathered from this very forum.

I won't tell you to only consider Checkmate just because this is a Checkmate forum ---- I'll advise you to stick with Checkmate because my experience is that Checkmate can offer a great rough water handling hull for a more reasonable cost than a lot of other manufacturers and it appears that Checkmate keeps it's weight down a bit from other same size vessels.
So this is what I've found....

The Baja --- I'm not here to put down Baja, they aren't as bad as we like to say they are in this forum, their pretty good looking performance boats {for cookie cutter types} and they can be reasonably priced, -- however my experience in the Bandit and the Outlaw is that they seem to roll a bit too much sometimes and they {the 22 to 24's} tend to have a little too much chine drift {or walk} on flat thick water {without blueprinting the hull}.

The Scarab ---- nothing bad about these boats performance {I've driven a couple} --- however good luck finding one for a reasonable price that doesn't need a lot of work.

Ahh, for the Checkmate boats {and this is why I love Checkmate} --- there are a few Mates that when found on the used market {even new if your in that catagory} that can satisfy the needs of almost any performance boating style {actually with the introduction of the Punisher 43, the needs of ALL performance boating styles will be met} -- anyway for rough water such as 3 to 5 ftrs {keep in mind 5 ftrs are a little much for anything under a 28 foot hull of any type performance boat} --- but some of Checkmates 24 ftrs are light enough for an Escape to pull and beefy enough for big water performance.

All that said --- I found a boat just for you my friend....
This is it, it's got your name all over it.
Great boat / and a reasonable price for the quality you get.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2002-Checkmate-240-Zt-90229310
 
ATC250R's comment is priceless !

Kurtster : That is some great feedback ! thank you ! I really like where you are going with your comparision. I was under the same impression's checkmate seem to be built lighter in comparision size wise to other manufacturer ... It shows in the MPH comparision Baja and or Formula or Scarab all seem a little slower at the end of the day.

I might sit on the checkmate a little longer because my budget was around 10 to 12 and I saw a few Scarab 22 around there and a 2 bandits but everything else including ZT's are all well over 15 ! well ! But the one you listed is really fairly priced but still over my budget.

hotdaddy27: I totally agree its not just the power to pull but the power to stop that mass in an emergency !
 
atc250r said:
Keep in mind that if you purchase a Baja that is 21 foot or bigger you will also have to purchase at least one large gold chain and copious amounts of hair gel throughout the summer.
Click to expand...
John makes a valid point. Could be problematic if you fall overboard.
 
Anything that you will be able to pull with an escape will not wow you in 4 footers.....a 19 or 20 degree deadrise like all the boats in that size range is not meant to be smooth with that kind of chop. Length to stradle multiple waves plus a 24 degree deadrise will be the only thing that rides nicely in the rough stuff. Out of the three boats you listed I would say you have the best constructed boat. The BBC in the back will help with the rough water ability versus a lighter SBC equipped boat. Water has lots of mass and the lighter a boat is, the more it will toss it around.
 
ram750 said:
Yeah I did expect the keep yours answer and I kind of like it too ! My problem is that the body of water that I am on gets really rough !!! this weekend before the storm there was 3 to 4 foot waves... Some serious stuff ! and in the storm it was easily 5 feet crashing in all directions !

I know I wont see this everyday and shouldn't buy a boat based on those once in a while condition but I would really like to know I have something that can take it !
Click to expand...

You don't have to explain it to me. Our lake gets a little rough at times and liked to kill me Memorial Day weekend. So what did I do? Went out and bought a 253 Convincor. lol. Had it out last weekend spectating a small poker run, and it was worth every penny having the bigger boat!! So you won't be sorry.

As far as the velocity goes, that's a very cool boat!!
 
You may want to hold off on the bigger boat until you can fit a bigger tow vehicle into the budget. Even with mostly flatland pushing your vehicle to it's limit or beyond will reduce transmission and brake life.
 
The Velocity I am looking at is rough but has a nice motor on the back ! with a 10 inch bracket and jack plate ...

From my research ( 1 min on google ) found that it is 22 degree deadrise and what should my senator be ?

BTW More Dead rise basically means deeper V angle right so is more always better ? I guess the pad in the back is to help in flatwater high speed condition right ?
 
ram750 said:
What would you guys think of a Velocity 22 ? Like Superboat or Activator with a 250 outback lets say ?
Click to expand...

They are supposed to be some of the best O/B rough water boats on the market. The L.I. guys swear by them.

22* deadrise isn't bad, but 24* is usually considered a "deep vee".

HD
 
Better than my Senator ? Any ideas of the Deadrise on my hull ? nothing on google for that info ...

Velocity 22
One of these
IMG_0324.jpg
 
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