Worried about Checkmate - see comments

[onthehammer]

I find it hard to believe that anyone on here would question the integrity of Checkmate. They have never built a piece of junk and never will. With the price of boats and not all people wanting a 1075 SCi in a ZT 230 like most of us freaks on here would, I think a 350 Mag with an Alpha would be a great boat for 80% of buyers out there. They would be happy with the performance and reliability as well as the fuel mileage. We have to remember that a Bravo will suck more power from an engine than an Alpha would. I believe that Doug would never compromise the construction of a Checkmate as that is what brought him to the company. All I am saying is that it should make it easier to sell more Checkmate's and bring the company back to its glory days without all the naysayers out there questioning and using the time will tell attitude. Time has told the story for Checkmate and nothing has changed for the worse, only the better. The boats are getting much needed makeovers and new graphics. Trust me, I am not sad to see the checkered flag and glue in carpet go by the wayside! Now excuse me while I go put on my new Checkmate underwear and socks.

 

[Chris]

How exactly is Checkmate accountable for some marina's "sales guy's" performance at a boat show?

I guess using that logic, Toyota is in trouble if the local salesman on the dealer floor doesn't live up to expectations?

Most of the booths at boat shows are manned and paid for by local dealers, not the manufacturers. Yeah, sure, some of the largest companies like Merc and BRP have booths at many of the shows, as do some of the huge suppliers like Genmar and Brunswick. But at the end of the day, the core of a boat show is your local dealer trying to sell some hulls for the upcoming season.

Do you really expect Checkmate to spend millions of dollars, running around to every boat show, in every city, putting up a factory booth?

It's just not realistic folks.

If you didn't see a Checkmate at your local show, call your local dealer and ask them why they weren't there with one!

Doug seems to be making progress in getting lots of new dealers signed up and on board, so given that, you're more likely to see more Checkmates at shows in the future.

But it's not Checkmate's fault if some guy manning a dealer booth, doesn't know his stuff.

 

[Big Red]

I have no doubt that Checkmates are built good. They are to me the best quailty boat for the money. But I would like to see at least one bigger mate 26-30 footer at shows or vender lots. Why not build a nasty 30 footer and drag it around to all boat shows or bring it to each dealer to let people know that they exist.

My Convincor is the 2nd one I have ever seen in person and I had to travel 9 hours to see it before I bought it. SCT's is the third Convincor I have ever seen in person. I waiting to see my 4th

 

[Blizz]

Most marinas will not order boats of that nature unless they know for sure they will sell it. It does them no good to have a 150 000+$ boat sitting around collecting dust. And boatshows nowadays really have nothing for the performance side as it is a very small market it's all fishing and family stuff now.

 

[Big Red]

I could understand about big money boats hanging around where sales is not for that market. But I am up here on Lake Norman where a lot on the lake sells for 800,000 + with no house and the water is rough from traffic. I can go out on the lake just hanging around on any saturday and not trying and can count over 200 boats that cost over 100,000 thats just what I pass not counting whats hanging on boat lifts in front of houses.

I would just like to see a good dealer fly with Checkmates around me. I think if they brought some real flash up this way they would sell because their is big money around this lake.

 

[F150GT]

I used to work at a Case equipment dealer, it would make me sick when they would hire new salesmen that didnt have a clue about heavy equipment. These guys were out trying to sell 200K + equipment and could hardly answer a simple question if it wasnt in a brochure. Theres not much diffrence in most industries, if your well studied in what you want you can often know more than the salesman. Its not rite but it's true.
As for the 350/Alpha, there are a lot of people that love the lines of a checkmate but dont need the all out speed and would gladly give up 10 or 15 mph for some better fuel milage. If alls your going to do is hang out at the local sand bar and pull toys or cruis an Alpha is fine.
I love my 21' with a 200, its not as fast as some but gets the job done just fine. I only usually get the chance to crank it up a couple times a year, the rest of the time is cruising, skiing & hangin at the beach. Beer is cheaper than gas. my 2 cents

F150GT

 

[JY]

Well, I went to the Ottawa boat show today. A dealer from Gatineau, Quebec had 6 Mates on display, from a 1650 all the way up to a 30 foot Convincor. They were the class of the show. He had a sharp ZT230 with a 496, switchable exhaust, Bravo Drive and lots of bling - carbon-fibre gauges, custom speaker grills, CD remote on the swim platform, etc., etc. All of the boats looked spectacular, including the new interiors. I went up to a salesman and started to talk to him about my ZT230 and possibly trading on a 2100. Unlike the salesguy referred to earlier in this thread, he turned out to be somewhat knowledgable on the line of boats. I looked down at his name tag and it was Doug Smith. We talked for about 15 minutes about all the changes he's made, and there ain't no doubt that he's got great passion and business sense. The fact that he has come up here to the Great White North tells you something more about where things are heading, even if that was probably part of the deal when the new dealer invested so heavily in the stock of boats. I talked to Doug about a couple of my own pet peeves - the removable section of windshield - he's got hinged AND tinted ones on order. He's also looking at some new graphics, but noted that it does take a lot more labour to do some of the more radical stuff and it would add greatly to the price. The new graphics looked great at the show, with a pretty big emphasis on metal flake. He said that they did a 2100 in a radical flame design over the winter, but it was extremely labour intensive. Would like to see pictures of that one some day.

I'm not worried about Checkmate.

 

[cooperider]

That Flamed 2100 belongs to someone on the board. I'll post pictures IF he says its ok. It is nice, and I'd like one like it myself.


I've had the same pet peeve, about the windshield. I'd like them hinged also.

 

[Big Red]

I would like to see the soild color boats back. I can't stand seeing a red or blue boat or any other color with a white bottom. To me it looks like they forgot to paint the bottom or the bottom was repainted.

Their maybe a reason for this or just trying to cut corners to save money.

Thumbs up to Doug Smith for taking the time to attend a boat show and represent Checkmate in person. I wish somebody we do that around here.

 

[claupie]

Well, I went to the Ottawa boat show today. A dealer from Gatineau, Quebec had 6 Mates on display, from a 1650 all the way up to a 30 foot Convincor. They were the class of the show. He had a sharp ZT230 with a 496, switchable exhaust, Bravo Drive and lots of bling - carbon-fibre gauges, custom speaker grills, CD remote on the swim platform, etc., etc. All of the boats looked spectacular, including the new interiors. I went up to a salesman and started to talk to him about my ZT230 and possibly trading on a 2100. Unlike the salesguy referred to earlier in this thread, he turned out to be somewhat knowledgable on the line of boats. I looked down at his name tag and it was Doug Smith. We talked for about 15 minutes about all the changes he's made, and there ain't no doubt that he's got great passion and business sense. The fact that he has come up here to the Great White North tells you something more about where things are heading, even if that was probably part of the deal when the new dealer invested so heavily in the stock of boats. I talked to Doug about a couple of my own pet peeves - the removable section of windshield - he's got hinged AND tinted ones on order. He's also looking at some new graphics, but noted that it does take a lot more labour to do some of the more radical stuff and it would add greatly to the price. The new graphics looked great at the show, with a pretty big emphasis on metal flake. He said that they did a 2100 in a radical flame design over the winter, but it was extremely labour intensive. Would like to see pictures of that one some day.

I'm not worried about Checkmate.

JY..where you from ...you own a 2100 ??

 

[claupie]

That Flamed 2100 belongs to someone on the board. I'll post pictures IF he says its ok. It is nice, and I'd like one like it myself.


I've had the same pet peeve, about the windshield. I'd like them hinged also.

Interesting..i thought that they had disc.flames..this must be the only 2100 flamer..
Sure would like to see some pics.

 

[JY]

Claupie: I'm in Ottawa. I have a ZT230 and have been thinking about a 2100. The flame design was a new one, not the old flames seen on the Coombs Mates. Would be nice to see.

 

[cooperider]

I hope they get that bridge fixed up there so I can take the ferry over to Gatineau, instead of going through down town Ottawa with a big truck. Thats kind of a night mare with the construction going on.


That flamed 2100 should be done soon, yes it is a new flame design. Not the old Combs era flames. I might be delivering it this week or early next week.

 

[claupie]

Claupie: I'm in Ottawa. I have a ZT230 and have been thinking about a 2100. The flame design was a new one, not the old flames seen on the Coombs Mates. Would be nice to see.

How about the pulsare 2100 long deck at the show..white w/blue w/250 xs

 

[JY]

Yeah, that was one nice ride. If I go for a 2100, it would have to be an open bow, though. What does your boat run?

 

[claupie]

Yeah, that was one nice ride. If I go for a 2100, it would have to be an open bow, though. What does your boat run?

74 gps..w/255 promax...
but it left today..Sold...
Now i am looking for new one..either 2000 or 2100..

 

[safetynut]

Ok, ok, count to ten and take a deep breath...

I've read the posts here and there are (as always) some great responses and some responses that are a little over the top.

My comments about the boat show and the concerns for Checkmate were simply that the local dealer didn't have the sharpest knowledge of Checkmate and I felt that lack of enthusiasm or knowledge was hurting the brand. I expected better - especially when presenting a new boat from a reorganized company.

I also strongly feel that "Brand Recognition" is critical. I worked for several years as a manager with Coca-Cola. They brand everything! Clothes, hats, t-shirts, mugs, coolers, stickers, etc, etc, etc... I go to Checkmates website and theere is 1 tank top, 1 knit shirt, 1 camp shirt, 2 caps, and key float... I would like to see a little more brand marketing and "fan" clothing available for their loyal customer base (I'd buy it in a heartbeat and already own 1 of everything on the site).

Finally, no one is bad-mouthing Checkmate. We all see the value of the product and the proven reputation - my point was (and is) if Checkmate and the local dealers are to be successfull in growing and capitolizing in performance boat markets the dealers need to bring their "A" game to boat shows and the Checkmate factory needs to put more effort into brand recognition and should consider some dealer support with sales info and some racing or high performance marketing.

Summer can't get here fast enough - some of you guys fluster easily... could it be H20 withdrawal?

 

[Blizz]

I agree with you safetynut. But more times than not in the marine business it just doesn't work that way. And the market is just not there to have tons of consumer products like the everyday products such as coke. Remember atleast half the population doesn't know what a Checkmate is.

 

[Chris]

I've read the posts here and there are (as always) some great responses and some responses that are a little over the top.

My comments about the boat show and the concerns for Checkmate were simply that the local dealer didn't have the sharpest knowledge of Checkmate and I felt that lack of enthusiasm or knowledge was hurting the brand. I expected better - especially when presenting a new boat from a reorganized company.

I also strongly feel that "Brand Recognition" is critical. I worked for several years as a manager with Coca-Cola. They brand everything! Clothes, hats, t-shirts, mugs, coolers, stickers, etc, etc, etc... I go to Checkmates website and theere is 1 tank top, 1 knit shirt, 1 camp shirt, 2 caps, and key float... I would like to see a little more brand marketing and "fan" clothing available for their loyal customer base (I'd buy it in a heartbeat and already own 1 of everything on the site).

Finally, no one is bad-mouthing Checkmate. We all see the value of the product and the proven reputation - my point was (and is) if Checkmate and the local dealers are to be successfull in growing and capitolizing in performance boat markets the dealers need to bring their "A" game to boat shows and the Checkmate factory needs to put more effort into brand recognition and should consider some dealer support with sales info and some racing or high performance marketing.

Summer can't get here fast enough - some of you guys fluster easily... could it be H20 withdrawal?

I don't see anyone seemingly getting bent out of shape - just fair debate and discussion.

To me, considering that the title of the thread is "Worried about Checkmate" that lead me to believe you were referring to being worried about the company itself. After your initial preamble, you then made a second post stating you weren't bad mouthing the company, you only want them to compete with other high performance contenders like Fountain, Eliminator and Velocity.

Now it seems you're clarifying that you're not worried about Checkmate per se, you're worried about the marketing and dealer network. OK, fair enough.

But I think the bottom line (for me at least), is that you're directly associating the compentence of a unrelated third party (a dealer's employee) with the competence of Checkmate itself. And I believe that's an error in your assessement.

You mentioned you were in marketing with Coke - well, if someone was criticizing Coca Cola Inc. because the guy in the local variety store was sub-par in attitude, or his knowledge of beverages, or representation of the Coke brand or whatever - how is that Coke's fault?

I don't think it is Coke's issue. It's the owner of the variety store's fault.

Also, you do realize of course that this individual that you spoke with, most probably sells numerous brands of boats, not just Checkmates? So are you worried about those companies too?

To your other point - yes, we all want to see more marketing. And I'm sure Doug and his crew are working on getting more available in the way of shirts, hats etc. But the most likely buyers of these items are existing owners - not perspective owners. So I think merchanding offers little bang, although it costs nothing as people pay for the stuff. So it's basically free advertising.

To me, the best marketing are the boats themselves. So you have to start upstream with the product itself. And the product I believe has been upgraded. There are new graphics, updated interiors, and retooling of some of the hulls. And that work is on-going.

Once you have the product in order, the next step is to get more dealers on-board and then get boats into those dealership showrooms. That way customers touch and feel the boats. I can tell you, there are way more dealers now, versus that of a year ago and more are coming on board as we speak.

For marketing, getting boats into magazines and getting favourable reviews is important. And I think we would all agree that is starting to happen for the first time in years.

So I think Doug and his crew have made huge strides in very short order. And they continue to work at things.

Personally, I'm more confident in the direction of the Checkmate brand now, than I have been in years.

 

[supergenius74]

I am not worried about checkmate, I would be more worried about baja than checkmate, they have a small but loyal following like donzi or cobalt. They make a superiour quality product and don't have a huge marketing and sales overhead. Have you guys ever been to a boat show? 90% of the people there either have never owned a boat or know nothing about them. It's more about pontoon/fishing/ski-boats than anything else and performance boat companies know that. It doesn't bother me if checkmate is there or not or what they are showing off, they are a company and can sell whatever they want, I only care that they keep making boats the same way. I actually enjoy it when people ask what a checkmate is, i get to talk about my boat! and the look on their face when i say it goes 70, they look at me like i just jumped off a cliff, like i must be a crazy person to do such things, hehe, at least they belive me, when my friend tells them he goes over 100 in his rapidcraft, they act like he is lieing, like it's impossible because it breaks the laws of physics or something.