Calling all Inline Six Gurus

[DropTop5.0]

I am posting this for someone I know that had some problems with one of his inlines. He's running Twin Inlines on a Boston Whaler Outrage 21.


Incidentally, on one of mine (1984 -115), I had a cracked (original) flywheel, and a local dealer in FL who seems to know a lot about these engines, replaced it for me, but could not find the army green colored one (NLA) that the engine uses. So he put on an earlier used red one he had, as used on the distributor models. I questioned it, but he said it would be OK. Well, it wasn't!

After less than a week of use in the saltwater, I was getting tremendous lower unit galvanic corrosion like I have never seen before, and the SS props developed a zinc anode coating in three days. Really strange. So just recently I found a used correct year flywheel on Ebay, and will get that installed when I return to FL. Another Merc mechanic I know thought the red flyweel was generating excess amperage that the engine's electronics couldn't handle and it was escaping into the water via the lower unit. The recitfier on both engines had to be replaced after I brought it in to find out what was wrong. I am now going to have to have the lower unit repaired and repainted. The paint and aluminum was literally being "picked" right off the edges and smooth surfaces. None of this ever happened until the red flywheel went on. So my question to you is have you ever heard of anything like this, or do you know the differences in the earlier and late model (distributorless ignition) flywheels? I would appreciate any knowledge you may have on this subject.

 

[DropTop5.0]

By the way, I like this pic better. Notice the Caddy.

 

[Ramifications]

That caddy doesn't appear to sit as low as yours does- maybe it is just the added "dead" weight

That is one of the cleanest Whalers I have ever seen! Whalers always bring back fond memories for me - 13 Whaler with a 40 horse Mercury was my first boat Started off as my brothers first boat and when my Dad got him a bigger boat, I got the Whaler. Many years and hours of fun, along with memories that will last a lifetime, were had on that boat!

 

[TheNerd]

This is really not a good site for technical questions. There is a member "Kary" that works on the old in lines.

 

[happy]

I have seen a lot of damage done over the years because of electrolysis, or as you stated corrosion, but never any attributed to a fly wheel. I find this a far reach, and would look further into the grounding system in the vessel, or the results of testing where the boat was moored. In my opinion, there is not enough information here to adequately assess the root cause of the issue.

Any excess voltage should be returned to ground, and if functioning to manufactures specifications the next logical place to look would be your anode or grounding wiring. These should be checked for proper continuity and operation and that they are functioning as designed, a thorough electrical diagnostic is in order. I suggest you research a bit more in detail to identify the actual cause to fix the problem. Your local Merc dealer if certified will have extensive knowledge and tools to identify this issue. If not, then find one that does.

BTW, very nice ride.

 

[keith4216]

Now i know why you sold, you where getting it from a whaler!

 

[CHAIN REACTION]

bad rectifier

CANT BEAT A WHALER,MAN I HAVE HAD SOME GREAT TIMES AT THE COAST IN ONE OF THOSE UNITS.I WISH MY CUSTOMERS TOOK CARE OF THEIR STUFF LIKE THAT.GREAT LOOKING WHALER.I KNOW IF YOU SAID THE RECTIFIER WAS BAD,THEN AC CURRENT WAS RUNNING IN A DC SYSTEM.I HAVE HAD A BOAT SHOP FOR 10 YEARS AND HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT DISCOLOR HAPPEN.I KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE GET TO THE BOAT RAMP WITH A BOAT OR JET SKI AND THE BATTERY IS DEAD,SO THEY LAUNCH AND TURN THEIR VEHICLE AROUND AND JUMP THE UNIT OFF.I HAVE SEEN THIS MESS A TON OF RECTIFIERS UP AND CDI BOXES.SOMETIMES IT DOESNT DO IT RIGHT THEN,BUT LATER OR WHEN THEY JUMP IT OFF AGIAN.WHEN A RECTIFIER IS BAD YOUR BATTERY WANT STAY CHARGED,EVEN IF ITS A NEW BATTERY IT WILL TAKE THE CHARGE.THIS MAY HELP ,IM NOT SAYING THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM.IF THAT WAS THE WRONG FLYWHEEL IT COULD HAVE BEEN PROBLEM.WHEN IN DOUBT BUY A CLYMER SERVICE MANUAL,BEST 38.00$ YOU CAN SPEND AND YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF.

 

[Bill Gohr]

Well theres some confusion here, the distributor wheel, battery ignition, wont even fit over a distributorless, ADI, stator, so those parts werent installed. Now I'm assuming these are ADI motors, so really any ignition related parts will have no bearing on your corrosion issue. However, the only thing that may remotely, and I'm reaching here, could be a blow rectifier diode on the red lead only, so test them both. But really something that will cause this corrosion issue qick is a leaky shore power cable, and it can be the one in the slip next to where you are parked, or, a bad ground, I had a boat that would eat holes in the paint over night once, and one of the transducers for a depth finder was leaking into the water. So good luck, any questions just ask or call me 847 356 3245

Bill

 

[L115]

I am the owner of the Whaler, and first of all want to thank Chris for introducing me here, and those who both posted comments on the rig, and with respect to the engine corrosion problem.

If others are interested in photos/videos of the boat, it can be seen here.

http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/lgoltz/library/#/user/lgoltz/library/Outrage%2021?&_suid=13588955975060802870686087301

With respect to the lower unit corrosion problem in salt water, and SS props being coated with Mercury aluminum anode material, I can offer some additional information. First of all, none of this ever happened until the flywheel was replaced with a used red one, instead of the factory correct army green colored one. I suppose it could just be a coincidence but does seem strange.

The boat is trailer kept, and if left in the water for a few days, always has the engines tilted clear when not running. The corrosion problem always seemed to happen when the one engine is running. There is no shore power connection to the boat, and no shore power at my dock. The boat has limited, although brand new in 2004, wiring, not even a battery selector switch. The two batteries have the Mercury recommend negative ground connection. Only electronics on the boat are a radio and Lowrance depth/gps combo unit.

I bought these engines new as 1985 models, and they are the distributorless late models, last manufactured in 1988. Until two years ago, they were run since new on another Whaler I own, with never a corrosion problem at all, including about 20% use in saltwater. Paint on the engines, and lower units, is all original from 1985. When I moved these engines to this 1971 classic boat, I intalled new 1971 Mercury decals to match the hull year and found a set of aluminum faceplates. If anybody is interested, I bought the decals from this fellow in Toronto, http://www.nymarine.ca/index.html
For outboard guys, this is a site worth checking out.

After maybe 15 hours of running, and after the prop coating episode, I had an unrelated starter problem on this same engine, combined with a dead/damaged 6 month old battery. Seemed strange, so I brought the boat back to the Mercury dealership that installed the replacement red used flywheel, wondering if the starter problem was related to these other issues. I don't think it was, be he indicated the voltage regulators ( Mercury accessory kit installed when the engines were new, since these engines are unregulated) AND the Rectifiers on BOTH engiones were bad, and that I was getting no engine charging on EITHER engine. He disconnected the voltage regulators, and replaced the rectifiers, and after this, now trying out aluminum props, I discovered the lower unit of the red flywheel engine getting eaten by galvanic corrosion. The other engine shows some corrosion also, but not as bad. The battery was replaced by selling dealer under warranty. It tested "shot". Wierd.

So that is all I know about this problem. Any thoughts, from any of you, would be appreciated. The boat will be going back in for the correct flywheel installation in a few weeks, and if nothing else, I will post whatever additional information I come up with and if the corrosion is stopped. The Mercury mechanic is also confused, and said he will do a complete electrical test on the engine. Thanks in advance to all of you who may have an interest in a situation like this. I sure am stumped!

 

[turtles11756]

the merc guys at johnsoldmercs.com

 

[keith4216]

l115
That is a sweet boat you have. Hope you get it right.

 

[Bill Gohr]

After that long explanation its obvious this boat has a short or some kind of current draw on it, which is somehow discharging between the engines. So what you need to do is, get an amp meter or a good old simpson 260, charge everything up, disconnect the positive cable on the battery which is going dead and connect your meter, you will see the draw, start disconnecting everything in the boat one at a time while watching the meter, you will see it stop when you unhook the failing system

 

[wizard8575]

look for wayne canino or clams canino he is really good with inlines! I cant seem to find his number he rebuilt my 1400 and its been running really good since!

 

[L115]

Bill - Is it possible the bad battery (which I replaced) was the source of the short, and that the battery was damaged by the wrong charging flywheel? The battery was only 6 months old, but it tested bad, and would not take a charge. Just trying to cover all possible causes. It seems the only other source of the short could be the Lowrance skimmer transducer or speed paddlewheel, although the unit works fine. All systems on the boat are fused, and besides the radio & sonar/GPS, only include navigation lights, courtesy lights, phone charger recepticle and bilge pump. That's it. There's not much on this old boat, and all wiring is new.

My Merc dealer down in FL did say he would do the testing you have mentioned once the correct flywheel is installed. Many thanks for your help.

 

[Bill Gohr]

This is not always what you consider a short, although it can be but it can be a voltage "leak", the example I gave earlier was a transducer cable in the water, "leaking" voltage across to the engine due to a lack of a ground and a hole in the cable.

Again, this has nothing to do with an incorrect flywheel, if you put a "red" flywheel on your engine and in ran, it's the correct wheel and it is just red in color, there is such a thing as a red ADI flywheel. Whoever told you that someone put a flywheel off of a distributor style engine on your ADI motor should not be allowed to work on your boat.

If they cant figure it out, call me 847 356 3245

 

[fox88gt]

Beautiful boat and power package there! I may have missed it while reading, but is each engine connected to its own starting battery? Each engine should have its own starting battery. That being said, are the starting battery negative terminals connected by a common ground cable? If they aren't, massive electrolysis can occur. Just my $.02 from a freshwater guy here - good luck with that beautiful rig!

Jeff

 

[L115]

Jeff - Thanks for your reply and compliment. Greatly appreciated.

Yes, each engine has it's own battery, and there is no dual battery selector switch. There is, howewver, the common negative ground cable between the 2 batteries.

I am still stuck up here in Illinois, but as soon as I can get back to the boat in FL, it is going to the Merc service shop so they can figure this out. This fellow used to race the in-lines back in the late 60's, the 125BP's with the side exhaust stacks, and knows them well, and has worked on them ever since. But he seems a bit stumped also. He says he will figure it out! I bought these engines new, and they have probably 300 hours of saltwater use, and this has never happened before. You can tell that by looking at them! Somehow a large amount of current has just started leaking off the engine (with the replaced, used, red flywheel) into the water, but only when it's running.

Thanks to all for your interest and help. I am going to print this thread and give it to him for reference.

 

[daveswaves]

Jeff - Thanks for your reply and compliment. Greatly appreciated.

Yes, each engine has it's own battery, and there is no dual battery selector switch. There is, howewver, the common negative ground cable between the 2 batteries.

I am still stuck up here in Illinois, but as soon as I can get back to the boat in FL, it is going to the Merc service shop so they can figure this out. This fellow used to race the in-lines back in the late 60's, the 125BP's with the side exhaust stacks, and knows them well, and has worked on them ever since. But he seems a bit stumped also. He says he will figure it out! I bought these engines new, and they have probably 300 hours of saltwater use, and this has never happened before. You can tell that by looking at them! Somehow a large amount of current has just started leaking off the engine (with the replaced, used, red flywheel) into the water, but only when it's running.

Thanks to all for your interest and help. I am going to print this thread and give it to him for reference.

If your mechanic used to race the 1250,s he may remember a service bulletin that Merc put out regarding twin engines and hooking up the charging systems. I am one of the inline nuts from Johns Old Merc site and I believe your problem stems from using both charging systems with a common battery system. Even though you have two batteries you have a common system since you have joined the negative terminals together. Current will flow through the two lower units when the engine is running causing your zinc plating problem. This could also have been your problem with the blown rectifiers and the damaged battery. The current flow is from your charging systems, not from the batteries. Your engine does not need the batteries to run, just for starting. Also make sure that all of the bonding straps from the power head to the mid section are in place. You may have to disconnect one of the charging systems and set up a battery isolator so that the one charging system charges both batteries. It is almost impossible to isolate the engines electrically otherwise due to rigging, steering systems, onboard accessories etc.

More for your mechanic to consider

 

[daveswaves]

By the way, there is nothing wrong with your flywheel.

 

[Jimway]

It's very interesting how problems can crop up and also very interesting how often times the problem can be caused by two or three other problems showing up at the same time. I wonder if the issue here is caused by a faulty component on one engine, or even down to a bad ( high resistance ) ground on that engine and the other engine having a good ground. Whether the engine that is experiencing the most corrosion has a bad component on it or if the other engine has a bad component or just a more resistive ground remains to be seen.