Checkmate Vs. Baja question

[remlinger]

Harsh man, You're really harsh! Pickin on them little ole chopped glass boats like that.

Wildman, not like kicking the guy after he's down. None the less I'm finding the 4-6 foot chop at fifty in a 24 footer a little hard to swallow myself.

To each his own.

 

[remlinger]

Jeez it's like walking into the lions den here but since it's been awhile since I've been over here I feel the urge to defend my brethren. I am part of the Baja tribe, but mines an old one, an 88 240 (same as a 24 outlaw).

First off obviously there is going to be a very biased opinion toward Checkmate's given this is a Checkmate forum. I would say different boats shine in different areas. Yes my boat is heavy, its 5200 lbs with a full tank and all my junk on board, and yes it is probably slower than say a 24 foot Checkmate and in smooth water I would probably get spanked. But I can run high 50's in glass and run high 50's in 4-6 footers and have done so on many occasions. It may not be as comfortable as a 35 footer in those same conditions but I've always felt safe and never came close to stuffing, it just gets on top of the waves and skips right along.

Honestly before I bought the Baja I was set on buying a Checkmate and looked at few Checkmates and even went and rode in a 22 vision and I felt unsafe in that boat running around one of the little lakes in Michigan, I couldn't imagine being out in the lake in that thing on a rough day. When I rode in the Baja I decided that was the ideal boat (in my budget) for the kind of boating I planned on doing, with the high-freeboard and the deep V.

And as far as quality goes I don't think there are very many manufacturers that are using the new processes that Baja is (well was) using, such as the vacuum forming and the stronger, lighter composites. They were still doing the in-gel graphics and to knock the quality of the newer boats is just ridiculous. Every manufacturer has complaints, yes they may have more but they sell more boats, I'm sure the ratio of complaints to boats sold is in line with any other manufacturer. There are still a lot of manufacturers doing hand-laid glass, its a tried and true process but the fact of the matter is there are better, stronger ways of doing it, the technology is there and I don't see how a manufacturer can be knocked just becuase the hulls aren't hand-laid. And maybe I have a biased opinion but dash and interior-wise Baja has the upper hand. The new bolsters in the Checks look awesome but the dash's still look outdated, require major glass work to change the layout and they still use that crappy aluminum edging around the bottom of the upper deck mold.

I'm sorry but it just seemed like some of the comments were pretty biased and I had to throw my .02 cents out there.

C deezy, what made you feel unsafe? Was it the speed? From all of the boats I've been in, Checkmates run extremely smooth and steady at top speed. It could have been the driver. As long as your happy with your purchase.

 

[Big Red]

It was the wind that made him feel unsafe. He can't see if he goes over 50mph to much wind in his eyes. Everything was a blurr. He forgot his factory Checkmate issued goggles for wide open running. He did not read his Checkmate owners manual. I would feel unsafe if I could not see. Everybody knows you have to wear the Checkmate factory issued goggles for wide open running

 

[boatman4021]

I would have liked to see that 24' Bajaliner at the poker run last year on Sandusky Bay while the 5 and 6 footers were rolling! I would be willing to bet that my 23" Checkmate will take any chop that the 24" Bajaliner will and run well into the 60's with a little 225 V6. It has been said before and I will say it again, Baja, the Bayliner of performance boats!

 

[dfarina]

Man, you guys are brutal. When my brother and I went to look at the 221 Vision, we both got the feeling that the guy who owned it was a hack. Took the trim tabs off and just glooped silicon in the holes, like it was in streamers 2" long, screws in the seats were loose and guy said it needed bigger screws(floor was getting soft) and it was spitting fuel all over the manifold(after the guy said there were no leaks). The boat was close to 70 mph (454 big block with cam/exhaust) but it was on a tiny little lake where he was constantly turning. It would have made a fine inner lake or river boat but for running on lake erie to the islands it was just too small. The boat that was bought was the best one for what it would be used for and it just happened to be a Baja. Too many people forget that, buy the boat that fits your wants.

 

[c_deezy]

Alright I concede, in fact when I pull my boat out of storage this year I'm not even going to take it to the marina, all I'm going to do is put a for sale sign on it and go buy an old Checkmate.

I just can't believe all of the 'my boat is the best' attitude. Nobody I know looks down on any other boat manufacturer, no matter what kind of boat they may have. Now if you don't take care of your **** you might get bashed on, but not because of the brand you chose.

Now granted I will correct a few things in my previous post as I was pretty high on cold medicine. I don't run in 4-6's at high 50's, high 40's at best and yes it is hard on the boat which is why I don't do it very often. However I've been out and had to run in the **** back to the marina and have yet to feel unsafe doing so. I've had some sore heels and ankles from it but that's about it.

Baja, the bayliner of performance boats? Give me a break. It's alright, the Baja guys are used to getting bashed on, it comes with the territory. I would think the Bucyrus boys would get a little more love from the cross-town builder but I guess not. I wonder if the tables would be turned if Checkmate had gotten as big as Baja, and not the other way around.

And it wasn't the wind that made me feel unsafe, it was guy who told me his boat ran 80, barely hit 68 and was chine-walking all over the place. Not to mention he was trying to do it on a lake that was maybe a half-mile across, all the while dumping fuel from a leaky fuel fitting into the bilge.

 

[Big Red]

I not bashing my fellow boater. But I do have enough since not to go on a Chevy website and tell them how much better Mopars are even though its the truth


Thats like sticking your ding dong in a hornets nest. Enjoy your Baja have fun jumping your chop. But this is a Die hard Checkmate site. I belong to other mutual boat sites and I don't go on their and bash Baja's or tell anyone Checkmates are better, but on this site I feel its open game.

99.9 % of people on this site own a Checkmate, have owned a Checkmate, wish they never sold their Checkmate, or dream of owning a Checkmate not a Baja.



Cheers Mate

 

[boatman4021]

OK, Let's turn the tables. Yes Baja got to be big. How did they do that? By mass producing chopper gun boats! Who just closed up shop and went belly up? Baja! If the quality is so good and they are such an upper level boat, why did they go down the tubes? By by Baja! boatman

 

[Craig]

I always think the interior "dash" comments are ridiculous when they say Baja's look better. Checkmate's "dashes" have all the spots for the gauges tooled right into the hull....alot of craftsmanship involved....Bajas usually just have some pre-fabricated panel that they bought from a vendor. I hate that, and there is always so much caulk everywhere like around the entire perimeter of the main bulkhead between the cockpit and cabin.

As far as the weights of the boats, you don't need excessive weight to run well in big chop, a good hull design probably helps more.

 

[dfarina]

You guys want to get real for a second? I'm pretty sure the person that oversaw the building of that '88 240 is the same person that oversees the building of every new Checkmate. Don't forget that before baja was bought out by the brunswick monopoly, it was founded and owned by Doug Smith, Checkmate Marine, INC. President/CEO. I've read nothing but good things about Doug on here so what does that say about early bajas?
You guys are more that welcome to tell Doug the company he founded builds sh*tty boats.(After the buyout, right? ) But now that he runs Checkmate he is amazing? Don't mean to be a dick but it sounds a little hypocritical.
You guys watch the interview with Doug on performanceboats.com? "We trained employees for them and they trained employees for us." (Speaking about baja and Checkmate) And i think that a few employees have gone back and forth between the two companies. When you bad mouth the companies, you bad mouth the people that work there. Sorry guys, but its kinda "where I come from" sentiment when I discuss these two companies. And I think it sucks that baja is folding because I do know a few people who work there.

 

[ross]

BIG RED!:cheers i like how you think!!!!! i don't want to say the "f" word on here but my buddy has a '99 32 foot fountain w/ twin 502's. he thinks the same as you do when it comes to big boats likes yours......
TRY ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAHAHAHA

 

[SCT]

I don't think Mr. Smith founded Baja.

 

[Blizz]

He sure was. Built the first baja in 1971 in an abandoned roller rink.

 

[Big Red]

Nobody is bad mouthing the people that work their at all. They do what they are told and get their check and go home. I feel bad that all those people are job less. But I am not sorry that Baja is shutting down.

 

[pony3xp]

Guys,
If you think for a minute that Baja is shutting down, you are mistaken. As a matter of fact, from an individual "price to build a boat" standpoint, they are probably better off with the economies of scale. That said, it will all depend on the amount of overhead Fountain has to "allocate" on each boat to cover the cost of what they spent to buy Baja.

Going out of business??? I doubt it just yet. All that has really happened so far is corp america working the numbers.

 

[cooperider]

The chopper guns didn't come back into play until Brunswick took over back in the 90's. And Baja got plenty big enough on their own before that.

While I probably wouldn't bother with many of the newer Baja's, I have bought and sold my share of older ones. In fact, I still have a 16 stashed at a buddys place. AND a 170 I/O over near bdusted440's that I need to pick up soon.

 

[Big Red]

The rate fuel is going up everybody will be out of business

 

[haftoo55]

It was Neil Baker, Charles Couter and believe it or not Fred Miller that owned it. Neil's Father and Fritz Hawkins were also their but I don't think they owned any part of it(but not sure). I was hired by Fritz to help start their costom paint jobs. All that Doug Smith was, was a salesman. Worked their in 1975 & 76 until just after the plant burnt (It was the old roller skating rink) And the boats were all chopped at that time. It was deturmined that the fire started between no.1 & no. 2 chop booth and there was a set of drying lights there if I remember right. All that was at the present sight of Baja is proto type and they had just finished the office building. I've always wondered how Doug ever got to owning it myself. Like I said been around boats a long time. Alan

 

[haftoo55]

You got that right Big Red we are slower than crap.

 

[Big Red]

THIS HAS TURNED INTO THE BLA BLA BLA BLA BAJA THREAD

I STILL DON'T LIKE THEM BECAUSE THEY FLOODED THE MARKET WITH A CHEAP PERFORMANCE BOAT THAT JOE BLOW COULD AFFORD AND THATS THE FACT. ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY IN THE LONG RUN. IT WAS A GREAT MONEY MAKING BOAT. THEY SOLD A CRAP LOAD AND MADE ALOT OF MONEY.

PROBALLY WHAT FOUNTAIN IS GOING TO DO. WE ALL KNOW FOUNTAIN IS A QUALLITY BOAT. WHY NOT MAKE A CHEAPER VERSION OF THE FOUNTAIN THAT MORE PEOPLE CAN AFFORD.

THEY WOULD SELL LIKE HOT CAKES BECAUSE OF THE NAME. I CAN SEE IT NOW A FOUNTAIN 29 FEVER/OUTLAW FOR 85,000.00 BASIC WHITE WITH SOME AUTO ZONE STRIPES. THE POWER OF THE BEEK