Construction Discussion

[Chris]

I was poking around over on Scream and discovered a link to this site.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm

It's rather interesting to see the quality of hulls some manufacturers are putting out these days.

 

[175checkmate]

That was a goood read. Sure makes ya wonder.

 

[cooperider]

Its the wave of the future.

 

[Chris]

Coop,

Any idea what that crap is?

It looks like it's a combination of chopper gun glass and some kind of composite resin crap...

Whatever it is, it looks like it's one big roller away from falling apart.

I noticed the guy rips pretty badly on Sea Ray on another page. He also goes on to rip on anyone who uses coreing in their hull. What he doesn't really do though is propose the alternative solution. He does seem to admit that end grain balsa core is the best of the coring materials, but his criticism is that it disintegrates too quickly if water gets to it.

If anything, it's a wake up call to everyone to make sure they don't compromise the structure of their hull by drilling holes that will allow water to get into the core.

 

[Mark]

Yikes! And I always thought SeaRay was one of the better ones. I was in a boat repair shop last year that had a Bayliner with the entire splash well torn out. It ripped right out attached to the factory installed ski bar while they were pulling a tube. It was just a thin fiberglass skin with no substance at all.
Maybe Checkmate is stayng on the right track with their old school, hand laid up and balsa cored hulls!

 

[cooperider]

Coop,

Any idea what that crap is?

It looks like it's a combination of chopper gun glass and some kind of composite resin crap...

Whatever it is, it looks like it's one big roller away from falling apart.

I noticed the guy rips pretty badly on Sea Ray on another page. He also goes on to rip on anyone who uses coreing in their hull. What he doesn't really do though is propose the alternative solution. He does seem to admit that end grain balsa core is the best of the coring materials, but his criticism is that it disintegrates too quickly if water gets to it.

If anything, it's a wake up call to everyone to make sure they don't compromise the structure of their hull by drilling holes that will allow water to get into the core.

Its a kind of bonding adhiesive, used to bond two fiberglass parts together. Not a bad product if used properly. I've seen various builders use one form or another of it.

 

[cooperider]

Here is a link to one type of product. http://www.itwplexus.com/home.html

 

[Chris]

I dunno man...

I think I'll stick to the technology that Mate is using, at least for now. Their boats have proven to stand up pretty well over time.

I also like the attention to detail that Progression seems to have and also the technology that goes into the boats that John Spaeth is turning out.

 

[petersfield]

Crazy I always thought Searay had a great hull as well! we had an old searay that came off the trailer at highway speed and was fine! I guess every company' is trying to save money but in the long run you get what you pay for! thanks

 

[Chris]

Crazy I always thought Searay had a great hull as well! we had an old searay that came off the trailer at highway speed and was fine! I guess every company' is trying to save money but in the long run you get what you pay for! thanks

Old Sea Ray might be the key there...

 

[Blizz]

That almost looks like a kevlar hull. Wait till all these "Advanced Composite" boat start to come apart. Kevlar is a terrible material it doesn't wet out very well But is extremely impact resistant. And Carbon fibre is not impact resistant at all, I seen a guy drop a 1/2 " wrench 3 feet onto a part with 15 layers outside look great x-rayed the part inside was all blown out. That's not the norm but just think of striking a small branch at 80+ mph..

 

[INXS]

I posted a thread their, I didn't put the link up, as a refference to say buyer beware. Some of the guys pointed this out over the years and I wanted to point out how these web-sites help the boating public. Chris, do you remenber that guy that wanted to buy a old stream and didn't care if it was rotten? Yet he wanted to run high speeds wth it. I think you posted a picture of a boating accident which was caused by the tramson breaking away. How a boats built has alot to do with safety!

 

[INXS]

That almost looks like a kevlar hull. Wait till all these "Advanced Composite" boat start to come apart. Kevlar is a terrible material it doesn't wet out very well But is extremely impact resistant. And Carbon fibre is not impact resistant at all, I seen a guy drop a 1/2 " wrench 3 feet onto a part with 15 layers outside look great x-rayed the part inside was all blown out. That's not the norm but just think of striking a small branch at 80+ mph..

I hear that Kevlar weakens greatly after about ten or so years?

 

[Blizz]

Yes it does, And it doesn't help that it doesn't saturate worth a crap in the first place.

 

[Scream And Fly]

Chris, that site is fantastic - I've been reading it for years. Remember though, that discussions there rarely cover the needs of performance hull construction.

 

[JUPITER PULSARE]

Chris, that site is fantastic - I've been reading it for years. Remember though, that discussions there rarely cover the needs of performance hull construction.

The pictures of the damaged vessels (from what I can see) were all pleasure boats. If you check the lamination schedules of high performance boats and see the composite materials they are using, they are quite different from the pictures in the beginning of this thread. That is why manufacturers such as Checkmate, Fountain, Cigarette, Skater, Outer Limits, Nortech, Active Thunder, Eliminator, MTI, etc. etc. charge as much as they do for their boats. Quality over Quantity and the ability to take pounding at very high speeds!!

 

[jwh445]

I read these pages a long time ago when I was in the market for a large pleasure yacht. His sticking points are through-bolting everything, no wood screws or pop-rivets. He blasts Sea Ray for gluing and screwing the deck to hull joint. I think his focus is more on the construction of larger yachts rather than smaller performance boats.

I was a little concerned when I took delivery of my Checkmate and upon inspection realized the hull joint was glued, the windshield is screwed down with wood screws, all hardware and upholstery is put together with wood screws, nothing is through-bolted. History tells me that Checkmate's are put together well and hold up over time but the construction techniques have alot in common with Sea Ray. Don't get me wrong, I am a Checkmate fan and I love my boat.

 

[Blizz]

Carbon is Carbon and Kevlar/Aramid is Kevlar/Aramid They both still have alot of issues that will come back to haunt people later and unless all these superboat manufacturers have an oven to cook thier hulls in thier Epoxy hulls are not really any stronger than a Plastic (Vinylester) hull due to not being able to perform post cure.