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Convincor LS Swap Project Thread

Sad to see your crossover setup didn't end up working out, i can't wait to see your closed cooling setup on there though. Through your trial and error I guess that's the route that I'll be going also.


Since we found everything when the engine was torn apart, I have been doing a lot more research on the LS cooling system and it's a lot more involved than I originally realized. Looking at how it works, I really don't see a way to do a cooling system that doesn't utilize a circulating pump. The more and more I read, the more flaws I saw in my system and being that it's almost February, I don't want to take the time to develop something new, so I'm going with something tried and true. I don't have much doubt that somebody looking to do a budget build could easily build a closed cooling system utilizing stock style accessories off of a car/truck, and some kind of stock merc or aftermarket heat exchanger. It would be really easy on an Alpha One boat that has the raw water pump in the lower unit. In a Bravo One boat, I think my crank mounted raw water pump would be more than sufficient to pump water to the heat exchanger, but like I said, at this point I am kind of burnt out on the "engineering" aspect of this project, so I am buying my way out of it. Doing that goes against every fiber of my being, but I bought the boat to enjoy with my family/friends, not to work on.


Anyway, here is a great article on how the LS cooling system works in a car/truck. Its a long, but really good read. and can give some good ideas on how to make stock stuff work in the marine world. its gets to the LS specific stuff about a 1/3 the way down the page.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Cooling/
 
OK, update time. Took a lot longer to get the motor back together than it should have, but its together now. So here's the rundown. As mentioned before, either number 8 cylinder got hot, or sucked something in with the reversion (I personally think its the latter of the two) and the cylinder got scuffed. Well, when I went looking for .040 over pistons, they aren't readily available and would have to be custom made. So instead of spending $1500 on custom pistons, I bought one new piston to match the rest and a new block. I ended up going with an iron block this go around for a few of reasons. First was my corrosion issue, second was I wanted the extra strength of the iron block for future plans (boost), third was I actually wanted the extra weight (96lbs) to balance the boat better and lastly, cost. The iron block was a couple hundred bucks compared to almost a thousand for an aluminum one. So the motor was completed and dyno'd the week before July 4th. This time on the dyno we played with the ignition system more and I am waaaay happier with the way it runs now. The motor actually utilizes a MAP sensor now and builds the same power as it did before but with 6 degrees less timing. It starts and runs like an EFI motor with the timing retarded at idle. So even though it took a few months longer than I wanted to get the engine back, I am a happy camper with how it turned out.

So here is what I did for the cooling set up. It is open cooling again, and here is why. After talking not only to Hardin Marine, but a few other people that have used the closed cooling set ups, they lose a lot of their cooling capability when you go over 500hp. Since I am north of that number, that wasn't going to work. So I am still running Hardin's accessories, just as an open cooling system. Here is what I received from them, and boy it sure is pretty!!!!










IMG_1375.jpg



That's their stainless Merc style raw water pump, 100amp alternator, PS pump and a circulating pump with tensioner. The circulating pump is what I really think the engine needed. This is kind of a crappy pic, since the engine is still on the transport pallet, but here it is installed.

IMG_1441.jpg



So I got the motor dropped in shortly after this and got all the new plumbing work done. I think it turned out really well with the only bad part being that all my new bling bling billet accessories are now hidden by the back seat!!! But oh well, if they work, it'll be worth it. We dropped the motor in on the same scales as last time out at Nick's (ndaniels on here) farm because I wanted to see how much weight I gained with the new accessories and iron block. It picked up 120lbs is all, making the final dressed weight of the engine 660lbs. Still 500lbs less than the dressed 454 I took out of the boat!!! Here is a pic of the engine re-installed (don't mind the kinked blower hose, it was fixed before I took the boat out, lol)

IMG_1483.jpg



Well, I got this all done just in time for the Checkmate Owners Rally last weekend at Cumberland. So, with no water testing, I hooked to it and pulled the old girl down to Grider Hill and dropped her in. Again, the new tune in the ignition amazes me. I don't even have to touch the throttle at all to fire it up or keep it running. It fires off in a matter of seconds and sits there and idles at 850rpm (750-800 in gear) all day long, and sounds amazing IMO. Here is a video my buddy Rich took of me backing into our slip when we arrived Friday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G78vls62bV4


So now to the good part. With no testing time other than that idle into the slip, I decided screw it, we're making the lunch run on Saturday which was right at a 40 mile round trip. I mean hell, it should work right? Well, it did!! The boat jumped up on plane and I checked all the gauges and the one that made me happiest was that it was holding 15psi of water pressure cruising at 3500 rpms (40mph). The only thing I noticed was that it wasn't charging like it should, but I fixed that later. So I kept a close eye on things and never took it over 40 mph on the way to the restaurant. The route to the lunch stop took us past the Jamestown/State Dock area which anyone who has ever been to Cumberland knows with all the boat traffic there, it can get pretty rough. This where I really noticed the extra weight that was taken out of the boat. She really like to fly now!!!! I was having a blast!!! I am also glad that I added the extra 120lbs into the back of the boat because she flew straight and flat as well!!! On the way back from lunch we were heading to a rope swing location on the lake to do a little raft up. When I was cruising into the cove the water smoothed out and nobody was around so I figured, its now or never...... so I put the throttle handle down!!! I can't believe how the thing pulled!!!! No way this is a small block!!!! I trimmed it just a little and watched the tach. Took her up to about 5400rpm and let off of it. While I was idling back into the tie up spot I hit the recall on the GPS speedo..... 71mph!!!!! I still have another 1000rpms and lots of trim to go!!!! Needless to say, I did the "Happy Dance" right then and there, literally, danced a jig in the boat!! I had spent the last two years working and spending money on something that I really didn't know if it would work or not.....well, it does!! That was with a full tank of fuel, my wife and all of our crap. I can't wait to get out on it with just me in the boat, less fuel and really string her out to see what she can do!!!

I'll keep updating the thread as I tweek stuff and get to do some more testing with her. Hopefully I'll get my wife to get a good blow by vid too!!
 
All that hard work is paying off!!! And for those that have not seen it in person, those pics and and vid don't do it justice. The sound is amazing...just a little small block. :D
 
She sounded pretty badazz down at the rally. I did notice the stern seems to ride a bit lower. Not to hijack your thread, but I couldnt keep the nose down on mine. When I pulled it I had oil in the bilge, thinking a tab line popped.
 
She sounded pretty badazz down at the rally. I did notice the stern seems to ride a bit lower. Not to hijack your thread, but I couldnt keep the nose down on mine. When I pulled it I had oil in the bilge, thinking a tab line popped.


You are right, it does sit lower. To me it looks a lot better.

This is it last year with the aluminum motor

image.jpg




Then this is from last weekend with the iron block. If you look at the bottom of the black stripe, you can see the difference.

IMG_1515.jpg
 
I could see loosing so much weight in the rear might not turn out well...lots to be said about the balance... Allyn and were looking at your setup, the way you have the coolant crossovers T-ed together is not good, they need to be vented(on our turbo car we run to a fitting back on the radiator, maybe try another T and dumping over the side or rear...keep up the good work !!!
 
I could see loosing so much weight in the rear might not turn out well...lots to be said about the balance... Allyn and were looking at your setup, the way you have the coolant crossovers T-ed together is not good, they need to be vented(on our turbo car we run to a fitting back on the radiator, maybe try another T and dumping over the side or rear...keep up the good work !!!


If you look closer it does dump out. On the port side it dumps into the hose that comes out of the exhaust and goes to the thru hull. It is hard to see in that pic, but I assure you, it dumps out.
 
Here is a better look at what I did. This is the Trick Flow steam vent set up. Just instead of running it into a radiator out of the front, I have it going into the water dump out of the back of the boat.

IMG_1559.png



IMG_1558.png





Really the only thing I could do differently is do each cylinder head separately and dump it into both sides of the thru-hull, but I really don't see the point in doing all of that.
 
Corey

Fantastic to hear you are up and running 🏃🏻 great job. When you change weight ithe boat handling changes, found that out. Best of luck to you and it sounds like you may need more prop!!!
 
Corey

Fantastic to hear you are up and running 🏃🏻 great job. When you change weight ithe boat handling changes, found that out. Best of luck to you and it sounds like you may need more prop!!!


I actually think the prop that's on it will be pretty close. Once I really start stringing it out, I'll know a lot more. But it was still pulling pretty hard when I got out of it. Right now I'm running a 24 Bravo, and on the slip calculator, the speed I was running showed 13% slip. If I can hold that slip number up to 6300rpm with that prop, the calculator says 83mph. In reality I doubt I'll ever even see 80mph, but I think upper 70's isn't out of the realm of possibility. Which for a N/A small block in a 253, ain't too damn bad.
 
Dammit Corey! Now I can't make up my mind on what to put in my boat! I've got to put something in it! Had all my parts lined up for a 350 small block build! I have a gen one alpha so I'm probably just going to stick to stock HP. but I want go the LS route. Do you have a list of parts just to get an LS installed in the boat?
 
Dammit Corey! Now I can't make up my mind on what to put in my boat! I've got to put something in it! Had all my parts lined up for a 350 small block build! I have a gen one alpha so I'm probably just going to stick to stock HP. but I want go the LS route. Do you have a list of parts just to get an LS installed in the boat?

Getting it in the boat really isn't that difficult, especially with an Alpha drive having the sea water pump built into it. I'll try to make a list of the essentials.

1. LS to SBC/BBC motor mount adapters. Can be bought for $30 on Amazon

2. A flywheel from a 6-speed manual F-Body/GTO/Corvette. Your coupler will bolt right to this, you'll just need to press the locator pins out of the flywheel and it takes metric bolts. M10x1.5 if I remember correctly. I think I got mine for like $68 brand new from Advance Auto with an online coupon.

3. Also your bellhousing off of the 350 will bolt right to the LS block, well, 5 out of the 6 bolts work, which is more than enough. Again, it just takes metric bolts.


Once you have those items, you can physically bolt the motor into the boat. Then the fun begins getting it plumbed. Here is what you will need for that.

1. The expensive part...exhaust. There is no getting around spending money on this. But there are some good options for manifolds now. Marine Power makes a complete manifold and riser for the LS that can be bought for less than $1000 a set. Bad thing is, since not a lot of people are doing this swap yet, there isn't much in the way of used parts.

2. Accessories. The good thing about doing the swap in an Alpha boat is not having to worry about a sea water pump. So you can probably get away with using the stock accessories off of a car. They don't look the best, but that's nothing a little paint can't fix. If you wan't to dress it up a little bit, there is a company called LSSimple that does custom brackets for a very reasonable price. You can find them on Facebook.

3. The decision to go carb or stay EFI. I decided to go carb to keep stuff simple. To do this I had to buy an intake, carb and an ignition controller. I went with the Daytona Smart Spark LS, but MSD has an option as well. If you go EFI you will need to modify the wiring harness as well as buy software to tune the computer so you can eliminate stuff like the mass air flow sensor and the o2 sensors. HP tuners is a good option for that.

There are a bunch of other little things that add up too, so much that I can't think of them all right now. Also, there are options you can do, like an aftermarket oil pan, oil cooler, remote oil filters and stuff like that.


Its can be done for not a whole lot of money, but it isn't cheap either. But the pay off is, even if you run a stock 6.0L LQ9, its 385hp out of the box. So you have just picked up 115hp over a 260hp 350ci motor. Plus you will now be on a platform that is easier and cheaper to build big power with if you choose to down the road.

There is a bunch I am forgetting, but if you get serious about it down the road, shoot me a message and I'll get you my number and I can talk you through everything I have learned.
 
hi corey just a heads up i was at boat show this year and volvo penta had powerplants on display so i went to have a look and guess what they were all ls motors you had to look closely lol cuz they were wrapped in plumming lol so i can see theyr alredy out ther not sure but prob merc has them too
 
ls swap

hi corey just a heads up i was at boat show this year and volvo penta had powerplants on display so i went to have a look and guess what they were all ls motors you had to look closely lol cuz they were wrapped in plumming lol so i can see theyr alredy out ther not sure but prob merc has them too
 
Oh yeah, I know they are around. Hell, Indmar has been using LS motors in ski boats for years. I remember seeing a Malibu at a boat show made to look like a corvette in the early 2000's that had a LS1 in it. A few years ago, Formula built a 353 Fasttech with a pair of Ilmor LS's in it. They were 575hp I believe and pushed the boat into the 80's. And actually in the early 2000's Mercruiser started toying with the idea of an LS based engine and actually built a 6.0L and sent it to Baja to be put in a 25 Outlaw for testing. Well, Baja screwed something up and melted the motor down so Mercruiser scrapped the idea. Some of those Mercruiser parts eventually made their way to Kunkels Marine where I picked them up to use on my boat. Mercruiser also has a 7.0L LS motor that makes close to 700hp that they are using in their road racing program right now, so I'd imagine it won't be long before we see those in marine use either. I'd venture to guess that in 10 years, you will see the majority of new boats being powered by LS based motors. They are small, light, strong and build big block like power.
 
Some of the new ski boats are sporting the smaller GM 5.3 liter engine. Probably the lower end models, as many high end boats have the Ford 6.2 that just got discontinued in the Raptor in favor of the second gereation 3.5 TT. I've been enjoying this thread all along, thinking of an LS swapped small Persuader BR
 
Oh man, if this motor works this good in my big ole 253, I can only imagine how well it would do in a smaller/lighter persuader!!! I can't wait for somebody to try it!!
 
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