Evinrude E-TEC 115 vs. Mercury Optimax

[xsive]

Riley

How much more unbiased can you get than side by side testing on identically rigged boats on the same day, location etc? What exactly is your issue with how B & W did their testing and what was reported?

I take everything that I hear with a grain of salt. As far as taking what a dealer says as hard fact and my "best source" of info. Nope. Dealer sales are driven by profit margin, selling the product they have in stock, etc. I would not consider them unbiassed just because they sell both.

 

[Riley7]

I'm not saying the article you are referring to was, or wasn't, biased. I was speaking in generalities, and don't have any insight into that particular article as I wasn't present at the test sessions. However, I have been at test sessions and product demos where the results were favorable to our products.....but since BRP was putting on these demo's/tests, I wouldn't have expected anything different. I have no issue with how B and W did their testing or what they reported, but I think you'd have to review a large cross section of articles done over a period of time to get an accurate portrayal of the real positives and negatives of any motorized product.

And yes, you can have biased reporting of the same products on the same boat (or any other vehicle) when tested on the same day. The publishing industry is just as profit-motivated as any dealer I've ever met, and they make their money from advertisers. I admittedly don't have much experience with the marine media, but I can tell you that in the powersports media that he who spends the most money generally gets the best reviews, and recieves the most positive publicity.

I still think a dealer that sells multiple lines is a great source of info, but yes they can be biased too. However, if you can get a demo ride with a boat equipped with an engine you are considering, it should help your buying decision.

Sorry for hijacking this thread, I didn't mean for it to turn into a commentary on the publishing industry in relation to editorial vs economic content. Bottom line is that there are a lot of good outboards on the market, and they all have pluses and minuses. Try to get an in-water demo of the unit you are looking for, and base your decision from there.....

 

[alwaysredee]

Last year I purchased a new '06 Opti 150 for my '92 Pulse. I looked at a lot of different types. When I researched the Merc., I found that the 150 dyno'd at 165 out of the box and I was sold. It made the HP-vs.-cost issue easy for me. I didn't change any guages from the orig. at all. I calibrated the tach and got the correct harness and adaptor to go withe the simplest control unit I could use. I have been pleased with it. I won't speak for anyone else, but I am happy w/ it. Good luck in making a HUGE decision.

 

[Chris]

I don't need any publication to tell me that Evinrude and Johnson have been bought and sold a few too many times over the last 5 years. Maybe BRP have turned everything around, I dunno to be honest.

But let's face the facts. Their four strokes were being built by Suzuki if I'm not mistaken, so that basically leaves them with the ETEC technology. And when they did their own, "biased", non independant testing, they chose to compare ETEC with Merc's Verado. Quite curious, IMO.

So when B & W compared ETEC and the Opti (which is the products that should have been compared against each other in the first place), to me it's no surprise that the Opti outperformed the ETEC.

There is also some "biased" Merc data kicking around where the Opti betters the ETEC in most of the important categories too. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find that info.

 

[Chris]

Found it.

Try this link.

You'll have to click a few of the links on the Merc site to get to the different comparison tests.

http://www.mercurymarine.com/rude_awakening

 

[Chris]

 

[Chris]

 

[Chris]

 

[Chris]

 

[Chris]

I rest my case your honor.

 

[Blizz]

I can tell you that BRP bought OMC almost exclusivly for thier Ficht technology even though that's what put OMC into bankrupcy they knew how to make it work but they needed the liscencing to fix it.

 

[Riley7]

LOL, like I said, any OEM can and will provide comparisons that will show their product in a favorable light. If you'd care to take the time to pull up some Evinrude, Yamaha, or Suzuki propoganda I'm sure you'd find some different results than what Merc provides on their website. Also, if you take the time to really read those "rude" awakenings, you'll see that all the data quoted came from that same B&W magazine test referred to earlier on this thread.

In regards to the comparisons with the Verado, it wasn't that long ago that the entire marine publishing business hailed the Verado as the newest and bestest thing on the market, funny but you don't hear that much anymore, do you? When Merc realized what an Edsel they had on their hands, and got back behind the Opti technology. Prior to that they were all wound up behind the Verado and you didn't hear much about the Opti.

Yep the 4 strokes were built by Suzuki, and now the only 4 strokes in the line are 15 hp and down.

Chris, in regards to your referrel to Evinrude or Johnson being "bought and sold a few too many times" over the past 5 years, what exactly are you referring to? Far as I know there was only one sale, and that was when BRP came along and bought OMC out of bankruptcy. Were there other sales?

Blizz, you are right about the reasons BRP bought OMC. You'll be seeing the E-Tec technology showing up in a lot of places other than just in the boating industry.

 

[Chris]

Well....

OMC went bankrupt.

Bombardier bought them.....

Then sold them to some members of the Bombardier family and they started BRP.

 

[xsive]

Um, the Verado is far from dead. Why else would they be releasing the 75, 90, 115 hp? (Verado sans supercharger) Go to Florida and look around at the docks where the offshore fishing guys are. What used to be a sea of Yamaha's have now been "taken over" by the Verado. Those guys put HUNDREDS of hours every year.

And I do agree that any manuafacturer will try to highlight the positives of their product and the negative of the competator's.

I do feel that Mercury referencing the B & W testing is about as "fair" as it gets as all boats were identical and there was involvement from all 3 manufacturer's into setting and testing. Of course pick a different boat and horsepower of motor and maybe the results would be different, or closer. Both products, I think, are far better than anything we had 20 years ago. If we all drove Ford's (heaven forbid ) wouldn't it be boring? Different strokes for different folks. As I said before competition makes for better products for you and me. If there wasn't they wouldn't have to work for your business. I wish BRP well with there product, cause it will only make my MERCURY better!! LOL.

Riley, I believe, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there were technically two sales of OMC:

1) Bombardier Corp. bought the OMC product from bankruptcy. (This company also made planes, trains, etc.)

2) The Bombardier family bought the rec. products (Sleds and Marine) from the parent company.

 

[Blizz]

Yes two sales but they basically bought it from themselves cuz Bombardier inc wasn't doing so well they sold off my deivision at the same time as they were the only two guaranteed to make profit every year. They also used some of the ficht injection system to finish thier batteryless sdi injection for Ski-Doo. And even though i bleed black BRP is number one in every other market thier in so only time will tell..

 

[Riley7]

I'm not sure of the dates of the sales as far as if BRP was formed before or after the OMC purchase was made. I stand corrected, as I guess you could technically say there were two sales if you look at it that way. The Bombardier family breaking off and founding BRP was the best thing that could have happened to the various product lines from SKi-Doo, Sea-Doo, and now Can-Am ATV's. I expect the same for Evinrude.

I didn't mean to imply the Verado was dead, just that you don't see the huge push behind the product like you did a few years ago. I spoke with a Merc rep not too long ago, and he said he felt the renewed push behind the Opti was directly due to BRP pushing two stroke technologies so hard. Competition is good for everyone involved!

One excellent indicator as to how an outboard is recieved in terms of value, performance, and reliability is how the independent OEM boat builders view the product. Most outboard builders "package" with OEM's, for the hulls to be pre-rigged or factory equipped for a particular engine. After our meeting in Nashville last week, we were informed that the OEM's we currently deal with have nearly doubled their package engine orders on E-Tec's from just one year ago. Genmar (Wellcraft, Hydra-Sport, Glastron, Ranger, Stratos, Four Winns, Triumph, Sea-Swirl, etc) ordered well over twice as many packages as they did a year ago. If one of the largest owners of OEM builders is making a commitment like that to BRP and E-Tec, I think the average consumer owes it to themselves to at least take a look at the products at their local dealer.

That being said, I hope everyone has a fun and safe holiday weekend and gets plenty of time out on the water...... :cheers

 

[Blizz]

Well E-tecs took 1st and 3rd respectivily at Rouen so we know the hp can be made. What we'll have to see is if BRP is gonna put some of it into a Hi-Po market or not. Depends on how much modding was done to then to make win if it's cost effective or not. And iknow thew were not stock cuz you can't win a race like that bumping a 5500 limiter all day.

 

[Chris]

Someone linked to an interesting article over on Scream.

Bass and Walleye Boats recently did a shootout article on some of the 250's and it seems BRP didn't want to participate. Hmmmm.........

Here's a link to the article...

http://www.bassandwalleyeboats.com/output.cfm?id=1122463

 

[Riley7]

Chris, you sure seem to have an anti-Evinrude/BRP bias going here. I'd think as a site administrator you'd welcome some positive input on all the different brands of outboards out there. It's obvious your pro-Merc, and there's nothing wrong with that.....but I think you'd try not to alienate other potential supporters/advertisers of your website.

Now, I read the article your linked to, and it brought up some interesting points about Evinrude choosing not to participate in the product comparison. In fact, I've emailed a couple of contacts at BRP/Evinrude to try and find out why they chose not to participate. I haven't heard back yet this afternoon, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of it had to do with Merc bringing their "race only" 250 2-stroke for a comparison against the other "consumer" engines. Toss out the 250 XS Merc, and it's a pretty valid product comparison.

Whatever I hear back from BRP--Positive or Negative--I'll post the answer here as to why the didn't participate in the B & W "shootout".

Oh, and isn't it kind of strange that both Merc's were equipped with high-end, big dollar, lab finished props, while the other engines all ran off the shelf stock propellers? How is that a level playing field?

 

[Chris]

Riley7,

Come on now man.

You've already admitted you have a vested interest in the health of BRP.

And there's nothing wrong with that. That's kewl.

But IMO you've made a few comments that just aren't factual. And you got called on them. Whoopie, big deal. We're having a debate man! So debate!


BUT, I on the other hand don't have a vested interest in either company.

I like Merc's, simply because I like 'em. I've owned both AND OWN BOTH, and my experience with Mercs has been that they're more fun, lighter, faster and more reliable.

For the record, the last Johnson I bought was in late 2000, so not too long ago. It was a 9.9 which I purchased brand new from our little local marina who I try to support. This is a guy who I've known since I was a little kid. Shortly after the purchase I was sent a letter cancelling my warranty from OMC. Nice!

But hey, I still own a '1955 Johnson 5.5 that I drove last weekend. And I also have an old 'Rude 7.5 Fisherman that I've got in pieces all over the shed that I'm working on restoring. The '55 I more or less got for nothing because no one wanted it and it's the same deal with the 7.5. The 5.5 I've probably put around 500 bucks into, because I have a soft spot for old gear. So before you start making conclusions on my motivations for what I post you might like to get all the facts.

But for me OMC isn't what it was. It certainly wasn't with my 9.9. And it certainly wasn't for my good friend and neighbor at the cottage who bought a Ficht 175, that would be the edition with "all the supposed problems fixed". Remember the one where they added the Ram Injection to fix the issues? Needless to say my neighbor has had more than his fair share of problems with his motor. I could go into the long story about it, but why bother. I would say he more or less feels like he got screwed on it though. And it's more or less worth very little at this point.

Would you like me to link everyone up to some of the stories of the Ficht motors that were blowing their cowels up into the sky etc? I can do that if you like.

Listen, the bottom line is that I have no hidden agenda with this site. And I'm certainly not going to change my opinions so that I might have a chance to sell advertising or for any other reason. I think whatever point you tried to make with that point sorta supports my position that I don't have an agenda. And as site administrator I'm here to have fun with the boyz, simple as that. This is a fan site that was started out of the love of Checkies, and it's still just that. I could really care less if people buy Merc, BRP, Yamaha or whatever.

As for BRP, they have a lot to prove to a lot of people. So when they prove it, they'll be back on my buying list and I'll say so when they are. But I'll tell you this......I don't think running infomercials comparing "apples and oranges" is the right way to go about convincing people. And I don't think running and hiding is the right way either.

Let's keep it real though. If ETEC's aren't as fast as a Mercs, aren't as fuel efficient, aren't as proven at this point, why the heck would I pay more for one?