1988 Vision redo

[Kurtster]

So, the "can of worms" is about to be opened....

Anybody got any detailed experience removing the cockpit floor from the Vision.

I found a few threads regarding other models but none for the Vision.

Before I start ripping things up I'd like some feedback from someone who's done it.

 

[Kurtster]

Before the season was over and before I started the redo on my Vision, I purchased a real nice pair of custom performance tabs from Eddie Marine, I wanted to get them on the boat and try them out before the season end so as to get that expense out of the way.
They were at considerable cost {about $1500}-- but they were exactly what I was looking for {size and style}....

Problem is, they only worked on two times out ---- the third time out {and the last time out} both tabs were frozen {stuck} whereas neither would deploy {go down} --- after investigating/troubleshooting we find the pistons are frozen.

Has anyone had any similar problems with tabs from Eddie Marine?

I did talk to EddieMarine over the phone and they said it's probably a corrosion issue and I need to send the pistons back to them and they will make an exact determination of the root cause.
I havn't sent the pistons back yet {although I will} -- hopefully whatever they find, they'll afford me replacements covered by warranty.
It just can't be a corrosive problem because the boat was only in the water for a total of 7 hours before they jammed.
Anybody ever had similar problems with the fancy / pretty tabs.
I know on previous boats, Iv'e installed the basic Bennett tabs a couple of times {at about 1/4 the price} and never had any issues.
Here is a pic of the tabs on the Vision.

 

[Gimme Fuel]

Usually the EMI stuff is pretty good. Those are very similar if not the same as the Dana marine ones I think. Might want to troll over on OSO for those answers. I know I have my eye on a set of their k-plane style tabs eventually.

 

[Kurtster]

Usually the EMI stuff is pretty good. Those are very similar if not the same as the Dana marine ones I think. Might want to troll over on OSO for those answers. I know I have my eye on a set of their k-plane style tabs eventually.

Ya, Iv'e purchased a few items from EMI and for the most part have gotten pretty good quality stuff {and service}.
I'll surf through OSO and see what I find.
On a similar note GF, -- I purchased these from EMI because one of my buddies had previously purchased a pair of $3000 K's for his 33 fountain and loves them and hasn't had a single problem --this was his second year with them.

 

[Gimme Fuel]

Yea, they are nice quality pieces with more bling and a better price than the Merc versions. I have the factory installed dual ram Boat Leveler Co. tabs on mine....with a blown hydraulic line.....and the rams are plastic . I think if I pry any harder to get the plastic sleeve that secures the hose on the integrated plastic nipple on the ram it will break off. Super cheesy setup in my mind. They have a nice heavy steel bottom plate and hinge but plastic rams. Good thing I never really use them. But they are a big help to have in the no-wake zones to keep the bow down and move a lil faster. I am waiting to land after getting air on a cruiser wake and shatter the rams. Of course I need a boat that runs again before that can happen.....so right now I guess they are as functional as the boat is!

 

[keith4216]

Doesn't sound right for being brand new. You say you troubleshot it. So I asume you tested the pump, switchs and fuses with a light. I just find it hard to understand how BOTH rams could seize up.

 

[paulsboats]

what he said x2...fluid level is ok?

 

[Kurtster]

Doesn't sound right for being brand new. You say you troubleshot it. So I asume you tested the pump, switchs and fuses with a light. I just find it hard to understand how BOTH rams could seize up.

Naturally, the instatrim pump and the switches and the fuse got tested right away.
Even when I disconnected the hydro lines to the pistons and tried to move the plates down by hand they still just would'nt budge.

Something very odd and unusual has definately happened to both the pistons.
I'm the kind of mechanic that finds these kinds of extremely unusual faults facinating, and will probably lose sleep until I figure out a root cause and solution.
If it were still boating season, I would not be so patient and facinated

 

[keith4216]

You have me fascinated now also. Did you unhook the lines and manaully try to lower them.

 

[Problem Child]

Your tabs look real nice Kurtster and very strange they would both freeze up. Im curious what is causing it. Keep us posted. Your Vision looks to good for a resto but good luck with it and Im sure it will be sweet.

 

[Kurtster]

You have me fascinated now also. Did you unhook the lines and manaully try to lower them.

Yup, after I checked the pump and lines {looking for air pocket in lines or somekind of blockage} and found the pump working perfect and checking fuse and electrical items {wiring / switches} -- I then while the lines disconnected try to lower the plates by hand --- You couldn't move them with a jackhammer {well I didn't really try a jack hammer }.

I'm sure whatever is found to be the root cause, it will probably be something important and valuable to share with all you guys that enjoy and have a passion for the "mechanics" of boating.
Even if I find {or EMI finds} that it was something stupid I did, I will still honestly share it with you guys {I'm too old and have been around too long to get embarrassed these days} --- although I still get humbled every now and again

 

[Kurtster]

Your tabs look real nice Kurtster and very strange they would both freeze up. Im curious what is causing it. Keep us posted. Your Vision looks to good for a resto but good luck with it and Im sure it will be sweet.

Thanks for the kind compliment PC.
Actually, last year I purchased this Vision from a guy who proclaims himself as a "professional" boat restorer --- he didn't actually claim to have "restored" this boat but he did claim this boat to be in {and I quote} --100% mint condition --- well that was a stretch, -- what he did was take a Vision that was already in very very good condition and he did a real nice detailed "cleanup" -- but as far as what a professional should call 100% mint -- no way.
However I wanted to do a custom re-rig and resto starting from a boat in great shape --- if I had lots of money to play with, I would follow in the footsteps of guys like Wildman and purchase a brand new stripped boat and build and rig from there, but for now the Vision project will have to do.

 

[keith4216]

Makes ya say hmmm, Can't wait to hear what they find. Don't know what kind of fluid you used but I've heard of some fluids reacting with the seals and expanding them. Which after a day or two will freeze up the rod.

 

[Kurtster]

Makes ya say hmmm, Can't wait to hear what they find. Don't know what kind of fluid you used but I've heard of some fluids reacting with the seals and expanding them. Which after a day or two will freeze up the rod.

Good thought Keith,
I didn't install the pump itself so I don't know what the mechanic used for pump fluid.

Another thought/observaion I got from someone was wax, --- One of my boat buddies here in my work place may have made a valuable point when he noticed how clean the stern of the boat is {ie..stern / outdrive / tabs / etc..}--- he knows I use my boat very often {usually a few times a week} and looking at some out of water pics he said, gee everything {noteably the stern area} looks brand new unused, he asked how the heck do you keep it soo clean given how often I use it in salt water --- I responded "wax wax and more wax everywhere" especially on the non-stainless metal items like tab pistons and plates --- I spray it on and wipe it off constantly {ahh boat candy makes a great speed wax} --- he asked, "do you spray wax directly on the rams" -- I said naturally {but not on the rods} however the pistons are aluminum and if I don't constantly keep a heavy coat of wax on them they will surely corrode very quickly in the salt.
He went ---- Hmmmmm and then rolled his eyes

Anybody think he's on to something?

 

[Kurtster]

Hi Guys,
I'm wanting to install a new steering wheel in my 1988 Vision, however I find that the steering system used is a outdated "Ride Glide" from Mercury, {distinguishable by the grey steering cable}.
Anyway, the problem is the old steering wheel mounts with a 7 bolt pattern, but the replacement wheel I have is a 6 bolt mounting pattern with a slightly smaller center hole than the original.
I purchased the replacement wheel with the understanding that there are plenty of adapters available for this application ---- well, now I have the wheel {and it is a beauty} but I can't find any adapter anywhere that I can be sure will fit -- I find plenty of 9 bolt to 6 bolt pattern adapters and vise versa but nothing for 7 to 6.

I know I can't be the first to run into this, so I'm counting on my forum experts/friends to help me out here

Anybody got any ideas?

Thought I would share the problems I encountered {and the solution} regarding this steering wheel stuff.

Well, come to find out not only did Checkmate use the now not so popular Ride-Guide steering system but they used two different iterations of that system.
The two versions of Ride Guide were ---- one with a round tapered hub shaft and one with a square tapered hub shaft.
To make matters a little worse, the hub itself uses a seven mounting bolt pattern for the wheel, whereas most are 6 or 9 patterns.
As I should have expected, my Vision has the hub and shaft {square tapered} that nobody makes wheels for {go ahead and try to find a nice custom wheel with a 7 bolt pattern}
So, you would think that I would just simply find a hub that'll go on the square tapered Ride Guide shaft AND that would accept my new wheel {my new wheel has a 6 bolt mounting pattern}.
Ahh, but there is another dynamic involved, -- there are two different 6 bolt mounting patterns now in the industry {basically the Dino pattern and the Momo pattern} --- well my new custom wheel is a Grant, so what the hell pattern do I have, the Dino or the Momo?????
You also might think I could just find a somekind of adapter that would simply go on my exisiting hub that would change it from a 7 boly pattern to one of the 6 bold patterns.
Well I searched everywhere --- all I got from places like Rex Marine / EMI / Overtons / CP performance / Teague / etc... --- there is no hubs or adapters anywhere that will fit your exact need.
So, I went to my local {and trusted} custom machine shop, they looked at my situation and said yup, we can spin and machine a hub that'll fit your need, --it'll be $200 and 3 to four weeks unpainted.
Ahhhhhhhh, enter a little forum searching and contimplation and I come up with --- let me ask Randy at WILDMAN custom rigging if he can give me any ideas.
Randy was awesome to work with, he patiently went through a couple of measures and other mechanical dynamics with me and low and behold he comes to me and says he's got a one of a kind specially made shaft hub that just might work.
Randy your the best -- thankyou again if your listening.

Here are a couple of pics of what the new wheel and hub looks like

 

[DropTop5.0]

Looks great!

 

[Gimme Fuel]

That looks very nice!

 

[Problem Child]

Nice looking wheel Kurtster. Looking at your dash is making me feel like I have been slackin. Looks like my next project is some new gauges .

 

[Kurtster]

Well the boat is at the custom shop and will be there for a few weeks getting paint / gel / and a little custom glass layup on the deck.

In the mean time I'm researching rub rail stuff.
Does anybody have any opinions/thoughts/feedback on the difference between plastic rail and aluminum rail?

I ask because the original [rail] on my Vision is aluminum, however I was talking to Mike at Checkmate in Ohio and he told me the only replacement they have for my boat is a plastic rail.

I have installed the aluminum type before and it was NO FRIKIN FUN

Seems the plastic type maybe a little tricky getting around the 90 deg corners and especially around the hair-pin turn of the nose.

I can go to a aftermarket vendor and get an aluminum rail but I would prefer to put on OEM stuff.

So any pros / cons to the plastic rail?

 

[DropTop5.0]

Why don't you cap it. It'll get a bunch of compliments.