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08 2100 with 08 300xs no power out of hole
- Thread starter 12pack
- Start date
PA-Checkmate
Active member
Was out last week with a friend who has a Checkmate 21 BR w/300xs and it runs upper 80's with my Bravo1xs and Promax props(28P). If You haven't yet done WOT then find someone with experience who can. That should tell U if the engine is making power!
12pack
Active member
Was out this morning, no water coming between Jack plate on holeshot. 77 best speed with 25p at 6200 rpm, I'm sure the boat would go faster but the trim button makes more chine. Motor seems to run great everywhere except holeshot, jumps right up with a 23p laser plus, 25 trophy plus is a dog.
Sam I am
Well-known member
Doing some internet research on the 300XS and I think I may have stumbled onto something. in 2008 Mercury had a bunch of bad coils packs go out on the 300XS. The symptoms reported were similar to yours. Poor hole shot, down on power...frequently the coils would test fine at idle and then not perform. Mercury actually put out a service bulletin on the coil packs for the 2008 300XS. Might be worth checking out...another thread mentioned replacing all 6 as a unit if you have one bad as they'll all tend to fall like dominos.
Threads:
http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=717421
http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=669743
http://www.screamandfly.com/archive/index.php/t-161139.html
- Wildman chimes in on this one....coils
Threads:
http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=717421
http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=669743
http://www.screamandfly.com/archive/index.php/t-161139.html
- Wildman chimes in on this one....coils
Wow, awesome find Sam!!
That said, I find it weird that the motor has great hole shot with the 23p Laser but not the 25p Trophy Plus. I have both those props that I use on my 250 ProXS and even though the 23p Laser II has better hole shot of the two, it's not like it's a night and day difference when compared to the 25p Trophy Plus. The difference can be felt, but it sounds like the difference 12pack is dealing with is pretty significant.
12pack - in my case the 23p Laser II has a standard hub and the 25p Trophy Plus uses Flo Torq hub. I use the same thrust washer on both props. Is there anything about your 25p Trophy that might make you think it might be restricting the exhaust more so than the 23p Laser? Are you using the same thrust washer for both props? I'm thinking if there's some aspect of using the Trophy that changes the exhaust flow, the motor might not like that.
Sam I am
Well-known member
I agree with this:
That said, I find it weird that the motor has great hole shot with the 23p Laser but not the 25p Trophy Plus. I have both those props that I use on my 250 ProXS and even though the 23p Laser II has better hole shot of the two, it's not like it's a night and day difference when compared to the 25p Trophy Plus. The difference can be felt, but it sounds like the difference 12pack is dealing with is pretty significant.
In response to that: The only other thing I could come up with is the prop itself. There are two different Trophy Plus props out there and the difference is barrel diameter. The difference is about 1/2" in diameter, but can really have a drastic affect on performance. I bought a Trophy Plus back in the day and it worked great on my 06 225 Pro XS. Fast forward to my Ranger with the 250 Pro XS and that prop sucked. The barrel was smaller than the LU on the 250 Pro XS...which I didn't remember being the case on my 225 Pro XS. What I can't remember anymore is if I had let my first Trophy Plus go with the boat and bought a second one that was incorrect or if I simply got lucky on the first. I tend to think I let the first one go and bought a second one that was incorrect...anyway, here's a thread that talks about the symptoms of that issue. They kinda sound like yours too...I'm grasping at straws here...but what the hay...conversations are free right?
Here's a thread off scream and fly that describes the issues when using the wrong barrel Trophy Plus...my experience with my Ranger was identical.
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?65439-Trophy-prop-large-barrel-hub-vs-small
That said, I find it weird that the motor has great hole shot with the 23p Laser but not the 25p Trophy Plus. I have both those props that I use on my 250 ProXS and even though the 23p Laser II has better hole shot of the two, it's not like it's a night and day difference when compared to the 25p Trophy Plus. The difference can be felt, but it sounds like the difference 12pack is dealing with is pretty significant.
In response to that: The only other thing I could come up with is the prop itself. There are two different Trophy Plus props out there and the difference is barrel diameter. The difference is about 1/2" in diameter, but can really have a drastic affect on performance. I bought a Trophy Plus back in the day and it worked great on my 06 225 Pro XS. Fast forward to my Ranger with the 250 Pro XS and that prop sucked. The barrel was smaller than the LU on the 250 Pro XS...which I didn't remember being the case on my 225 Pro XS. What I can't remember anymore is if I had let my first Trophy Plus go with the boat and bought a second one that was incorrect or if I simply got lucky on the first. I tend to think I let the first one go and bought a second one that was incorrect...anyway, here's a thread that talks about the symptoms of that issue. They kinda sound like yours too...I'm grasping at straws here...but what the hay...conversations are free right?
Here's a thread off scream and fly that describes the issues when using the wrong barrel Trophy Plus...my experience with my Ranger was identical.
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?65439-Trophy-prop-large-barrel-hub-vs-small
Last edited:
Yes, I would agree with Sam that it seems the problem might be something to do with the prop itself. If something about the Trophy Plus is restricting the exhaust, that sort of thing can impact the performance of a 2-stroke quite significantly. The restricted exhaust would just seem like more load to the engine itself, so everything else about the engine would likely check out fine like what 12pack is seeing.
FWIW my 250 ProXS has the Verado 1.75 gearcase and my Trophy Plus has the plastic ring on the base of the barrel to take up the small difference between the gear case bullet diameter and prop barrel diameter. The barrel of my 23p Laser II is the same OD as the gearcase (no plastic ring) with a small step at the base to reduce the diameter to just tuck under the trailing edge of the gearcase bullet. My Trophy has the Flo Torq hub while my Laser has the standard (permanently installed) hub circa 1996 or whatever. I use the same thrust washer for both props.
Also, I have a 28p Trophy Plus with the identical barrel to my 25p, and even with that my 250 ProXS will climb out of the hole. Comparing that to 12pack, it almost sounds like his 300xs wouldn't be able to come out of the hole at all with a 28p if everything else was the same as his 25p. That just doesn't sound right given he's got more displacement, more HP, and lighter hull than I do. Of course my 28p Trophy Plus is more sluggish than the 25p out of the hole, but it comes out okay. I just don't use the 28p much because the 25p is more suitable to the way I use my boat on a day-to-day basis. For example, just the other day I was pulling 2 single-seater tubes (11 year old kid in one and a 13 year old kid in the other) with 3 adults, two teens, and one kid in the boat - this was using the 25p Trophy.
FWIW my 250 ProXS has the Verado 1.75 gearcase and my Trophy Plus has the plastic ring on the base of the barrel to take up the small difference between the gear case bullet diameter and prop barrel diameter. The barrel of my 23p Laser II is the same OD as the gearcase (no plastic ring) with a small step at the base to reduce the diameter to just tuck under the trailing edge of the gearcase bullet. My Trophy has the Flo Torq hub while my Laser has the standard (permanently installed) hub circa 1996 or whatever. I use the same thrust washer for both props.
Also, I have a 28p Trophy Plus with the identical barrel to my 25p, and even with that my 250 ProXS will climb out of the hole. Comparing that to 12pack, it almost sounds like his 300xs wouldn't be able to come out of the hole at all with a 28p if everything else was the same as his 25p. That just doesn't sound right given he's got more displacement, more HP, and lighter hull than I do. Of course my 28p Trophy Plus is more sluggish than the 25p out of the hole, but it comes out okay. I just don't use the 28p much because the 25p is more suitable to the way I use my boat on a day-to-day basis. For example, just the other day I was pulling 2 single-seater tubes (11 year old kid in one and a 13 year old kid in the other) with 3 adults, two teens, and one kid in the boat - this was using the 25p Trophy.
12pack
Active member
Thanks Sam you guys are awesome! Coil update was done by Merc and is recorded in the system. Not sure which year they updated them, also had Merc tech check them not sure how he checks them but I will look into that as well because the updated coils could be an issue.
PA-Checkmate
Active member
I had 2 coils go bad on my 300xs at different times, and totally lost spark to the cylinder. But I guess anything goes. Last time I checked the coils were over $140 each.
12pack
Active member
25p trophy is a small hub and 23 laser 2 is large making it same size as my bullet, there is a significant difference in the amount of room the exhaust has to flow, I believe they are both flow torque hubs ( I slide one off and the other on). I removed exhaust ring from the 25 trophy and all 4pvs holes remained open. Way to much prop slip. Installed 2pvs plugs with the large holes across from each other, got a significant gain, still slips pretty good just before I get in plane but doesn't hit the limiter so I ran it like that. So it appears my setup wasn't and still probably isn't ideal. The boat still struggles to get on plane. My old starliner with 225 Yamaha was 2x as fast getting on plane( can't remember prop and pitch). My enchanter with 200 2.4 would get up and out 3x faster with 23p high 5. I'm going to ask tech tomorrow how he is certain coils were good.
I've attempted to get ahold of previous owner to see if it always ran like this or if it started running like this after he was out of warranty. Once this tech hit a wall he reached out to Merc and it has been to 5 different techs with no results, but was out of warranty so he/I am screwed!
I've attempted to get ahold of previous owner to see if it always ran like this or if it started running like this after he was out of warranty. Once this tech hit a wall he reached out to Merc and it has been to 5 different techs with no results, but was out of warranty so he/I am screwed!
karzrus
Well-known member
FYI About Merc Trophy and Trophy plus props, The plus props have the small barrel, while the non plus are the large barrel.
With Trophy plus props, my boat does not like much or any ventilation holes open. At most I run two plugs with a small 1/4" or 3/8" hole and the other two plugs closed. If I go to a taller pitch 27-29, then I might need some ventilation.
I did not have any luck trying to run the spacer ring on the barrel of the smaller hub "plus" props.
My 08 250xs has had one of the coil packs replaced under warranty, the 5 others are original. If all six were replaced on your 300 and you are able to hit 77mph at 6200 rpm. I don't think you have a power issue. Only other way to confirm this is with Dyno, you could check marine shops around and see if there is one close to you and the cost to have your motor run on it.
Since you pretty much ruled out dragging the jackplate as an issue, do you find much difference with motor height affecting hole shot? Also at what height do you find your best holeshot?
With Trophy plus props, my boat does not like much or any ventilation holes open. At most I run two plugs with a small 1/4" or 3/8" hole and the other two plugs closed. If I go to a taller pitch 27-29, then I might need some ventilation.
I did not have any luck trying to run the spacer ring on the barrel of the smaller hub "plus" props.
My 08 250xs has had one of the coil packs replaced under warranty, the 5 others are original. If all six were replaced on your 300 and you are able to hit 77mph at 6200 rpm. I don't think you have a power issue. Only other way to confirm this is with Dyno, you could check marine shops around and see if there is one close to you and the cost to have your motor run on it.
Since you pretty much ruled out dragging the jackplate as an issue, do you find much difference with motor height affecting hole shot? Also at what height do you find your best holeshot?
Sam I am
Well-known member
Pretty much agree with this. The only two things we haven't talked about is the hull itself? Bad hook? Bad repair job somewhere? Waterlogged?
PA-Checkmate
Active member
Any updated on your issue?
Sam I am
Well-known member
I pulled mine too. I thought of you as I was doing so. Dang winter.