Press Release-New Checkmate Convincor Coming in 2012

[hotdaddy27]

Can you tell by the above post that I just got power back after 5 days!

 

[keith4216]

Just for conversation, WHY not work with the 27' hull. Already have the mold. Why not update that hull with new options. Unless there counting the bolt on swim platform and its really 25'. I haven't checked on that.
EDIT: That is counting the swim platform. So that idea is nevermind. lol
Either way I love this boat it has modern look to it with convincor lines. So stretch out that extra foot, hopefully like baja did for more motor options but keep the convincor lines.
http://www.tritonmarina.com/boatdetails2.php?BoatID=110&IsNew=1

If it was more want the wife wanted,[enclosed head, dual motors, over 30ft, and warrenty] yeah she doesn't want much lol. This boat would be in my drive with that price. I'm sure the powers at hand know whats up and if we sat down and heard there thinking we would probaly be saying "oh I see, your right". I think we all love the convincor, but just want to see it better then anything in its class.

 

[yellowfiero88]

I also, would like to see Checkmate put the R&D money into serious interiors, motor packages, engine compartments, electronics, etc. I know we are asking a lot out of a "semi-custom" "affordable" boat manufacturer, but they don't have to do all of the boats to the "cadillac" grade.

In all honesty, I really just want to see them succeed and make boats for many years to come!

I don't know where I was going here, but I am sure someone will get me on the right path.

HD

Well said! Some of the cheap rigging on boats I have been looking at are turn off's. I agree that nicer rigging (Mo Bling) will sell the boats as long as the quality is there. The problem is they change and a lot of people on here bitch about the change. I like some of the changes and others not so much. Some of the stuff I didn't like at first grows on me. In the end, they have knowledge in the industry about what will and will not sell. It does not make sense to spend thousands on R&D for them not to sell any boats.

 

[Gimme Fuel]

I see both sides to the argument. A pulsare hull won't really benefit because not much is in the water at speed. A convincor however, I think would. If CM is taking the time to make a whole new hull plug, then that is the time to start incorporating new technology into the hulls. Use the classic styling and top deck that sells (personally I hate the new F-16 canopys that manufacturers are using on v-hulls now.....) but in turn build a wicked bottom hull piece that has the deep deadrise and the vented steps......make it fear no wave and outrun the competition on the flatter waters. Most of the high dollar builders are incorporating large steps in their boats under 30'. Hustler has the 29 Rockit with 6 steps and is designed to handle above 100 mph. Howard 28 bullet uses a vented stepped hull and runs pretty much 90 mph with a 600sci. Granted the HOward and the 300 Convincor run close to the same with the 525 but for those wanting to go faster than 80, the hull needs to be very efficient, plus a lil new buzz about a proven boat builder wouldnt hurt either. What is going to draw the boat buyer's attention? A new boat that is not much different in performance from the rest of your lines or something that is going to get talked about and set itself apart from the pack.

I'm not saying that a hull like this needs to be built a quickly as possible, they can pick away at it. Perfection takes time.....but a little revolution now and again is healthy for society.

 

[fireguy]

The Howard Bullet is a really fast hull and it would be on my short list of really cool toys if I won the Lotto. But, it is a 22 deg. hull, so it should be a bit faster. It is definitely more of a stereotypical west coast lake boat.

Not knockin it at all, I think it is a bada$$ boat, just metnioning the 22 deg thing.

 

[Gimme Fuel]

i realize the howard is only the 22 deg deadrise and that is the only fault i can find with it........but add a steps to a 24 degree hull and it will gain speed because there is more keel in the water st speeds. that is the function of a pad bottom....it reduces the deadrise at speed and gives a more efficient surface for the boat to balance on but yet is narroe enough to still let the 24 deg hull break chop.

 

[hotdaddy27]

I am glad to see that so far there are only 8 Baja comparisons.

I think that all of the brain washing on this site (anti Baja) has turned people against any boat that looks "curvy" or "futuristic" (like the new Convincor). I prefer to call it Baja's "Euro" look. At any rate, BAJA SOLD BOATS and lots of them. They must know something about the boat design/building industry.

My main concern is the quality of the build. My boat was built right at the Combs/Smith switch over so I can not judge. What do people with new boats, 2010's and 2011's, think of their boat's build quality? I think KCT11 would be a good judge, he had an early 2000's Pulsare and now has an '11. I have heard rumors, but never any facts about the current quality control and build techniques. Let's hear it!

HD

 

[fireguy]

Why would there be ANY difference in build quality? They are still hand laid construction. I have not read anywhere that Doug Smith brought his chopper gun with him and insisted it be used on all Checkmates now.

I really think the whole thing is much ado about nothing. If you want a hand laid boat with classic Checkmate lines then buy one of the original models. If you want a hand laid quality built boat with different styling and lines then buy a new model.

 

[yellowfiero88]

When it comes down to it, they will build your boat custom to your specs. If you want extra glass, they will do it. You want the top and bottom glassed together, they'll do it. Custom graphics.....you guessed it, they'll do it!!

 

[fireguy]

^^^Exactly my point^^^ and, it is going to still be the same high quality hand laid boat that Checkmate has always built (until we have proof otherwise) regardless of what mold is used.

Outerlimits could build a boat using a Bayliner mold, but it wouldn't be a Bayliner. I have no idea why Outerlimits would want to do that, but that is not my point.

 

[keith4216]

SO if Checkmate takes the time to build a HAND built boat. Then why is it they are behind in options and technology? I would think a hand build, not mass produced boat would be on top of things! Just stirring conversation.

 

[hotdaddy27]

You don't need a chopper gun to affect quality...

My point is that there is/was improvement to be made on Checkmate's build quality. Hand made doesn't exactly translate to instant quality.

In example, how many 10 year old or less Pulsares have we seen with rotting floors because there was no where for water to get out, no glass on the bottom of the floor, seat screws too long and protruding into the balsa. Then there is the unsealed hardware leading to premature roting of the transom, etc. I won't even get into some of the wiring I have seen in my CM's over the years. This is not bashing, it is simple improvement that could be made with little effort, money and time.

I am hoping to see Checkmate continue to improve and gain market share. Perhaps I am off the topic of an exciting new Convincor, or maybe not, if I were buying another new Checkmate, these would be my concerns.

HD

 

[karzrus]

You don't need a chopper gun to affect quality...

My point is that there is/was improvement to be made on Checkmate's build quality. Hand made doesn't exactly translate to instant quality.

In example, how many 10 year old or less Pulsares have we seen with rotting floors because there was no where for water to get out, no glass on the bottom of the floor, seat screws too long and protruding into the balsa. Then there is the unsealed hardware leading to premature roting of the transom, etc. I won't even get into some of the wiring I have seen in my CM's over the years. This is not bashing, it is simple improvement that could be made with little effort, money and time.

I am hoping to see Checkmate continue to improve and gain market share. Perhaps I am off the topic of an exciting new Convincor, or maybe not, if I were buying another new Checkmate, these would be my concerns.

HD

You make some very good points.
I suspect that most of the copper gun boats are built by hand as well.

What we are all refering to as hand built is really hand layed glass cloth that is really only one important step in the constuction of a boat. This and CM's willingness to continue to do the graphics in the gelcoat and to provide the option of custom graphics and trim is some of what sets them apart in the boating markets that they compete in. I think the other big thing has been the look and style of the boats.

They are switching over to different build techniques and composite materials for more of the items that are subject to rotting, but are a little late compared to some other builders in this regard.

I'm with you in hoping they continue to improve quality while maintaining what is unique to CM.

 

[keith4216]

Just to stir more conversation. The competion is useing kevlar and carbon fiber in there new boats. They also use off shore motor mounts along with in gel graphics and updated electronics. I know Checkmate uses in gel graphics but so do others so its not a selling point to me. How many have found it hard to get on the bow, It's a bitch and many have broken windsheilds. Just to be clear I love Checkmate, been in Checkmates since I was 10 or so. Just wanting them to get on the bus and wondering why there not? Check out this video and maybe you will understand what I'm talking about. It is what it is! I think it is to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiARYq0KxEo

 

[JUPITER PULSARE]

Is a step really going to help a v hull like the Pulsare that normally rides on the last 3' of the pad? I've always thought steps are for bigger IOs.

SCT, the steps not only aid in top end speed numbers; they also improve fuel economy at cruising speeds, they eliminate alot of bowrise and improve planing times. They also would help for many water sports like skiing/tubing/wakeboarding by allowing the hull to remain on plane at slower speeds with less bowrise. Have you ever tried driving a Pulsare while pulling a wakeboard?? You have to constantly adjust the throttle to maintain speed and keep the boat on plane..and you can't see over the bow if you're sitting down!

 

[stclairriverblaster]

I am glad to see that so far there are only 8 Baja comparisons.

I think that all of the brain washing on this site (anti Baja) has turned people against any boat that looks "curvy" or "futuristic" (like the new Convincor). I prefer to call it Baja's "Euro" look. At any rate, BAJA SOLD BOATS and lots of them. They must know something about the boat design/building industry.

My main concern is the quality of the build. My boat was built right at the Combs/Smith switch over so I can not judge. What do people with new boats, 2010's and 2011's, think of their boat's build quality? I think KCT11 would be a good judge, he had an early 2000's Pulsare and now has an '11. I have heard rumors, but never any facts about the current quality control and build techniques. Let's hear it!

HD

ive disliked bajas since i first drove one. way before i signed up here.

 

[fireguy]

Just to stir more conversation. The competion is useing kevlar and carbon fiber in there new boats. They also use off shore motor mounts along with in gel graphics and updated electronics. I know Checkmate uses in gel graphics but so do others so its not a selling point to me. How many have found it hard to get on the bow, It's a bitch and many have broken windsheilds. Just to be clear I love Checkmate, been in Checkmates since I was 10 or so. Just wanting them to get on the bus and wondering why there not? Check out this video and maybe you will understand what I'm talking about. It is what it is! I think it is to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiARYq0KxEo

What manufacturer is using Kevlar and Carbon Fiber that is in direct competition with Checkmate? There are a number of manufacturers using these products in their boats, but they are in a whole different stratosphere pricewise. It's really unfair to expect a boat dealer that is selling a brand new 270 for 80K to be compared to the higher end manufacturers.

Price a Laveycraft 2750 with Carbon or Kevlar layup and see where it comes in.

But Keith you are 100% dead on re: getting onto the deck. It is a huge pain in the ass.

Also, just for clarification I never used the term "hand built" everything I said referred to "hand laid" fiberglass, and there is a significant difference between a "hand laid" boat using bi and tri directional matting and boats built using a chopper gun.

Once again, I just really think this whole thing re: Baja molds and Baja styling is much ado about nothing. If you don't like a particular style boat, then don't buy it. But, from what I have seen there is no indication whatsoever that Checkmate is going to sacrifice their well known build quality because they have some models using old Baja molds.

 

[fireguy]

Oopsie, I just watched the video and saw what you were referring to when he mentioned Baja using Kevlar in the layup. I was unaware that they were using Kevlar, but I don't know everything.

The 26 Outlaw still shows a dry weight of 4800 lbs though, so I am not sure that the kevlar gives any advantage weight wise when the 270 weighs 4000 dry.

As far as the offshore motor mounts goes, Baja had one huge advantage over nearly all other builders. That was Economies of Scale. They built a butt-load of boats and therefore probably got amazing pricing from all of their vendors. When you build more boats than ANY other manufacturer, you are going to have an advantage in production costs. Economies of Scale works.

 

[Chris]

SCT, the steps not only aid in top end speed numbers; they also improve fuel economy at cruising speeds, they eliminate alot of bowrise and improve planing times. They also would help for many water sports like skiing/tubing/wakeboarding by allowing the hull to remain on plane at slower speeds with less bowrise. Have you ever tried driving a Pulsare while pulling a wakeboard?? You have to constantly adjust the throttle to maintain speed and keep the boat on plane..and you can't see over the bow if you're sitting down!

The Starflites had a stepped hull and they were replaced by the Pulsare which doesn't.

I vaguely recall one of the reasons given for not going with stepped hulls had to do with them being a bit more unpredictable handling wise.

-Chris

 

[hotdaddy27]

What manufacturer is using Kevlar and Carbon Fiber that is in direct competition with Checkmate? There are a number of manufacturers using these products in their boats, but they are in a whole different stratosphere pricewise. It's really unfair to expect a boat dealer that is selling a brand new 270 for 80K to be compared to the higher end manufacturers.

Price a Laveycraft 2750 with Carbon or Kevlar layup and see where it comes in.

I agree, custom lay ups will drive the price way up for sure. The raw materials alone are insane in price.

But Keith you are 100% dead on re: getting onto the deck. It is a huge pain in the ass.

I agree with both of you, THE one thing that I really don't like about my ZT is getting onto the bow from the cockpit. I have already wiped out a a few times. All that wax doesn't help either!

Also, just for clarification I never used the term "hand built" everything I said referred to "hand laid" fiberglass, and there is a significant difference between a "hand laid" boat using bi and tri directional matting and boats built using a chopper gun.

Sorry FG, I inadvertantly said "hand made" instead of "hand laid". I knew what you were referring to and made a gramatical error.

Personally, I really don't think that the Baja molds have anything to do with anything related to quality. I am just looking to see what changes have been made with the changing of the guard. Some of them are apparent, other may not be so obvious. No punches pulled.

HD