Sam I am's 89 Starliner Restore (Discussion Thread)

[Sam I am]

This will be the first post of what I hope will be an "Epic" restore thread. If I've learned one thing about the restore threads that I enjoyed the most...LOTS OF PICTURES ARE KEY! Here we go!

I picked this "thing" up for $2000. I thought I got a great deal. But my wife said: "This thing looks like a huge money pit." Now that I crawled on it a little bit...I'm pretty sure she's right. In that vein, my Grandpa said it best: "Boat, a hole in the water in which one throws endless amounts of money." I don't think this one will be that far off from their descriptions. The interior is shot. A very poor attempt at rebuilding the floor and seats has already been done. The lower unit is cracked. The motor does not tilt. The motor may, or may not, run. I'm not too concerned with any of the faults, because this will be a labor of love and I was going to replace the motor with something ridiculous anyway.

It's a 100% complete Starliner...couldn't be a better project boat. Everything is there!



It sure doesn't look like much...the blue and white color scheme is horrible.



But...it's sure putting a smile on my face!



There is some mild dock rash all over...oh well. It's going to be RED anyway.



I think I could bring back the gel, but it's so dang ugly anyway, why bother.



This thing may be a rock. If it's not a rock, it's a POS at the very least.




Caulking around the corner of the motor plate and spash well does not bode well.



Stuff I found in boat: moss, leaves, a dead bird, a squirrel tail, rotten vinyl, a perfect glove box, a perfect windshield including the center piece, perfect dash and gauge layout, perfect cooler lids, all factory hardware...in otherwords, a total disaster with some major "wins" thrown in to still make me feel great about this boat.





Hey what's that?



Score! 21P Tempest Plus! Not in great shape, but still another small victory.

 

[Sam I am]

More pics...



All the gauges a guy could hope for and in a layout I can live with. So, at least I don't have to infill the dash!!



Shot.



Probably shot.



Sigh.



Out of all the ugly stuff on this boat...this was the ugliest. How do I repair this?

After it's all said and done, I hope this will be a great boat and experience. I'm a little scared, but after reading all the restore threads and seeing how all the tremendous people on this board are willing and happy to offer advice and guidance...I'm going for it.

My father-in-law thinks boats are cute and we're all a little silly...so he offered up a pose with some "Real Horsepower"

 

[mateman]

There is a release knob/screw on the right side of the engine that should bypass the trim pump and let you manually raise it.

 

[Sam I am]

I did some more crawling on the boat and I have some general Starliner questions: The seats don't appear to be in the original spots...does anybody have placement measurements? Same with the back seat cleats for keeping the rear bench in place...they're gone.

The boat is an 89 titled for the first time in 2001? It's only been 11 years and this boat is falling apart?! I don't believe it... I guess that's what happens when they sit unprotected out doors. What a mess. I've been itching to tear into this beast but I leave for FL for 6 weeks next Wed and I don't want to start and then split. So...I'll wait until I get back from FL to get into it hardcore.

I've been researching metal flake paint jobs and gel coats. Looks like a huge undertaking and major PITA. Also...I'm no painter. So the costs would be significant. I'm not spending more on the paint than I did for the whole boat. But, here's the general plan for the restore:

Build a cradle to get the boat off the trailer and on the floor. It seems like it will be a lot easier to get something done if I don't have to climb up and down and in and out of the trailer.

Derig everything. Sell the motor and controls. Anyone want to venture what I'll get for the motor and controls? The wiring is spagetti. What a mess. Have of it's cut and splice to NOTHING?!

Split the hull. I'm not going to screw around on this. If there's caulking around the motor plate...the transom is most likely rotten. From all the threads, the transom replacement will be a lot easier with the top deck off.

Floor, transom, stringers (keeping my fingers crossed on the core) removal and replacement commences. Should only take a couple of days...right? I was going to go with coosa board for all this. BUT, since I'd have to take up man-whoring in the oil patch to pay for it, I'll be going with wood. Just can't justify for the added expense. I may change my mind on this for the transom.

Once everything is glassed back together...Flip the hull and start sanding. I'll be rereading JTpatroni's thread a few more times. Also will be looking at all the paint threads some more. Will probably start saving for an airline ticket for Yellowfiero.

I'm going to redo all the teak...I love wood accents on a boat. Also, going to put transom lights and bow lights. Checkout oceanLED.com...cool product and definitely will plus up the PIMP factor. These are also why I wanted to go with coosa for the transom. But, if I use 5200 on the through hole and screw holes and follow their install instructions...I think it will be fine. The boat will not be in the water unless being used.

Definitely going rubber floor. This will be a pricey upgrade, but worth it. After having it, I loved it. It really allowed me to enjoy the boat more because I knew it would clean up easy. Kids with koolaid...fine by me. Eggshell white. Here's the link: http://www.plasteak.com/plasteak-recycled-plastic-products/teak-holly-and-flooring/loncoin-flooring Will keep looking for cheaper sources, but it's really hard to find suppliers with 8' rolls.

I'm going to order a factory interior. Just close my eyes and write the check. Does anyone know if I'll get original Starliner seats or will they be Pulsare seats? Is there a difference? Seastar Hydraulic steering and livorsi gauges. Also, I've been researching the LED accent and rope lighting for some bling factor. Looks cool. I'm not going crazy with the stereo. At the most it will be a 4 speaker set up, no sub, with an iPod dock. However, I might not even put a stereo in...we'll see.

And finally, the plan is to find a used Yamaha 250 SHO four stroke outboard. There are used ones just hitting craigs now. I'm hoping in another year there will be more. The cost will be significant, but I plan on keeping this boat for a LONG time. If I can't find a Yamaha SHO, then I'll go with a 250 Merc Pro XS or an Etec 250 HO. Thinking about 10" of setback...but not sure. Maybe 12"?

Oh yeah...a new trailer is in the line up as well. I met the owner of the business that manufactures all the boat trailers for Larson. He's got about a bu-zillion trailers sitting out in his lot and a whole bunch of trailers that folks have traded to him. Most of the trailers taken on trade were undersized for the boat that they came with. Sad. Someone buys a new boat and their trailer is a bare ass minimum trailer in terms of being able to handle the weight. But, they'll work great for the Starliner. Double axles, surge brakes and he'll have the bunks fitted and welded for the hull if I can get it there. He had the perfect new used white one for me already there, but since I'm a year away from needing a trailer...I figured that money needs to go into the restore.

Well...that's the rough plan. A big time saver would be to save the gel coat and keep it blue and white. But...I'm a red guy. Who knows though...it might grow on me.

 

[Sam I am]

Started tearing it up today...

After pulling it into the garage last week to thaw out and let the snow melt out of it, I couldn't help but notice that my garage was starting to reek of cat piss. I walked over to the boat in stuck my nose in there and...yeah, smelled like a cat had been living in it for a LONG time. So. That led to some minor pulling and tugging which in turn led to yanking out most of the interior. Not that it was hard. The entire interior was being held together by the vinyl. No lie. After about 4 hours I had all the seats and carpet out. I've never seen so many loose screws in a boat. I bet I pulled out a 5 lbs of screws, nuts and bolts just rolling around in this boat including 4 big washers and nuts for the props, about 12 spark plugs, tons of stainless steel screws and gobs of garbage, leaves and trash. What mess.

Hey...I wonder what will happen if I pull on this...oh.










It's easy to remove old stuff when all you have to is gently pull.




Everything is wet.



Yes. Dead $h!t. Who doesn't love dead $h!t. In their boat. Not me.

 

[Sam I am]

More pics...

Here's the back end with all the seats and carpet out.




Ski locker and bases with everything out.



The rest of the floor...everything is soft.



The seat bases literally disintegrated...I would not have been surprised to find termites. Luckily, I didn't.




I'm going to be able to fill up my pick up with the amount of stuff that needs to go to the dump. What a mess.

 

[Sam I am]

How much of the interior do I save? My plan is to order a new interior from the factory. Will they make the panels or do I need to do that? There is nothing to save...it's almost all rotten! Will they make new seat bases for the back bench and bow seats? How about the panels under the dash...they were so rotten they just nudged out with my foot! If I need old stuff to make templates...I'm screwed as it all just fell apart in my hands.

My hope is I can call Checkmate up and say, "Gimme a complete 89 Starliner interior in white with red, black and silver accents, please." I will then commence to close my eyes, sell a kidney and stroke a check. Is this a sound plan?

 

[kalugs22]

How much of the interior do I save? My plan is to order a new interior from the factory. Will they make the panels or do I need to do that? There is nothing to save...it's almost all rotten! Will they make new seat bases for the back bench and bow seats? How about the panels under the dash...they were so rotten they just nudged out with my foot! If I need old stuff to make templates...I'm screwed as it all just fell apart in my hands.

My hope is I can call Checkmate up and say, "Gimme a complete 89 Starliner interior in white with red, black and silver accents, please." I will then commence to close my eyes, sell a kidney and stroke a check. Is this a sound plan?

They can still do it...my dad called them about his and if I remember correctly it was something like $2200 or $2300 for the complete interior 3 color and I think $1000 or $1100 for just the skins. If you going to keep the boat it's probably a good investment especially since they don't use wood anymore.

 

[john lamon]

How much of the interior do I save? My plan is to order a new interior from the factory. Will they make the panels or do I need to do that? There is nothing to save...it's almost all rotten! Will they make new seat bases for the back bench and bow seats? How about the panels under the dash...they were so rotten they just nudged out with my foot! If I need old stuff to make templates...I'm screwed as it all just fell apart in my hands.

My hope is I can call Checkmate up and say, "Gimme a complete 89 Starliner interior in white with red, black and silver accents, please." I will then commence to close my eyes, sell a kidney and stroke a check. Is this a sound plan?

It will come complete, dash support panels, bow insert, everything you need, when I did my Eluder I was quoted 2100 for complete or 1050 for skins, starliner is probably a bit more, it will not come with the little slats or buttons as they call them, I used my original buttons as most of them were in good shape and I just got skins so they were easy to put on, a couple of mine were rusted through on the backing were the string goes through that holds them in, both behind the control box where they are not noticeable so I left them off, I doubt you will want to pull staples on the new interior to re use them so if you have a couple that are not rusted through on the back keep em' for me if you don't mind in case I need one down the road, they are not available anymore, they are more of a oval shape now and the old one's just look better on the classic hulls IMO, I thought the side panels looked too plain without them.

I can't belive all that rot you have, that's crazy

 

[Sam I am]

It will come complete, dash support panels, bow insert, everything you need, when I did my Eluder I was quoted 2100 for complete or 1050 for skins, starliner is probably a bit more, it will not come with the little slats or buttons as they call them, I used my original buttons as most of them were in good shape and I just got skins so they were easy to put on, a couple of mine were rusted through on the backing were the string goes through that holds them in, both behind the control box where they are not noticeable so I left them off, I doubt you will want to pull staples on the new interior to re use them so if you have a couple that are not rusted through on the back keep em' for me if you don't mind in case I need one down the road, they are not available anymore, they are more of a oval shape now and the old one's just look better on the classic hulls IMO, I thought the side panels looked too plain without them.

These are gray and cracked or cracking...are you sure you want them? Could you send me a pic to make sure I'm understanding what you're talking about? Also, feel free to stop in anytime. I'm going to be gone for about three weeks though starting tomorrow.

 

[ckaluger]

Talk to Mike at Checkmate, when you give him the serial number he will pull the build sheet for the boat and can tell you all of the options ordered and the original dealer. For my 88 Starliner the complete interior, 11 pieces matching the original design was 2,100 bucks. They use all new fabrics but will match the color stripping and pleating. Mine appears only to need a major cleaing and possibly wet sanding and a buff out.

 

[Sam I am]

MORE PROGRESS!

I called one of the local marinas who wheels and deals on a lot of used motors and runs a pretty good service department and asked him if he'd be interested in the motor. He said he would but wouldn't commit to a price until he saw it. So, I towed it over there this morning and met with him. I told him he could have the motor, the gauges, the controls and the steering. He asked how much? I said $500 bucks. He said done. I'll be picking it up tomorrow sans everything I mentioned and have another $500 bucks for the project budget. I know I gave hima good deal, but at least I dont have the friggin' headache of tryin' to get it running or having to try and sell it locally or any of that stuff...all in all, I'm pleased with the progress I've made in a few short days.

 

[Sam I am]

Talk to Mike at Checkmate, when you give him the serial number he will pull the build sheet for the boat and can tell you all of the options ordered and the original dealer. For my 88 Starliner the complete interior, 11 pieces matching the original design was 2,100 bucks. They use all new fabrics but will match the color stripping and pleating. Mine appears only to need a major cleaing and possibly wet sanding and a buff out.

I really wish I could have found a red one. Oh well, I'm going to make this baby all mine. For better or worse, richer or poorer, until death do us part. I'm married to this boat now!

 

[Sam I am]

A little progress

I got into it for a little while this evening and I can say with reasonable certainty the transom is shot. It felt solid with the motor on it, but now that I've removed all the screws from speedo bracket, swim platforms, motor holes and cleaned up the caulking on where the transom plates were...it's all wet. The water ran out of the holes and they weren't even through the transom. I was prepared for this, but a small part of me was hoping I'd open it up and it be like brand new! Just kidding.

I'm surprised at how many screws are in these boats. Especially in the transom area. I'm very happy I found the thermolite composite material for the transom. I'm also surprised how much space this stuff is going to take up when it comes off the boat. I'm about half way through reorganizing my garage to make space for the project. Getting the snow blowers out, all the hunting gear in a storage unit etc, etc. Once that's done, I'll build a cradle/rack for the boat to be on while doing the restore. It will also be a good time to try and unload the trailer. I'm hoping to get $250-500 for the old roller bunk shorelander. After that it will be time to really get serious about taking this old boat apart.

HEre's some pics of the cracks in the transom, and splash well. There's an old repair there, but it's hard to see with all the dirt.











Picked myself up a little helper today. Someone said this is the must have tool for a boat restoration. For what these little babies are going for, it should restore a boat all by itself. I hope it's up to the task!

 

[Sam I am]

Nice transom come pick me up and we'll split the deck off her or stand there and drink beer and look at it, that works too!

I just kicked one of my coworkers out of my garage! I'm going to bed. I'll pick you up in the morning. No...I'm not going to be knocking on your window at 3 am.

 

[Rob B]

The Fein MultiMaster tool is the shiznet!!!! I've got the Bosch version and it does everything as advertised!!!

 

[hotdaddy27]

Sam,

The Multimaster is in my top three favorite tools list for sure! It does things that boggle my mind. It is especially helpful in doing finish work or plunge cuts where larger conventional tools will not allow.

On another note, that Transom looks like crap! Keep up the good work.

HD

 

[paulsboats]

Sam , in regards to post # 49 , i have owned a Fein for many years now and that tool may be a little pricey but actually has paid for itself three times over ................

they make a great 6 inch sander and vac.combo also.

 

[Sam I am]

More progress

OK...got the works space ready today. Cleaned and reorganized the entire garage. Scrubbed all the road salt off the floor so it's not slimy and generally got the place looking pretty good. After I pushed the boat back in I decided to pull off the rub rail and split the hull. I figure all the rigging will be easier to remove with the top cap on saw horses. Anyway, after a lot of drilling out rivets, removing screws and drilling out even more rivets, I've got the hull ready to split. It's loose around both sides and the front, but the stern is tight. I remembered Badbk's idea of using a floor jack to pop the back end, but I needed to remove the fuel tank first, so...I unscrewed the tank and then realized how much fuel was left in there. A LOT. I then got the clever idea of using the fuel line to siphon the gas out...I simply cut the end of the hose that would have connected to the motor and then squeezed the fuel bulb to get the fuel running. I ended up siphoning out 15 gallons of gas. I have no idea if the fuel is any good or what to do with the old gas if it isn't. After the gas, I called it quits for evening. I took some pic and will post them tomorrow. I'm going to home depot tomorrow to get myself some saw horses. I used to have 6 that I made when I was doing construction, but gave them to my father in law since I thought I was done with building. Oh well...

After I got the tank out, I have to say that the stringers look pretty good, but that doesn't mean they're not rotting from the inside out. Still water dripping from the transom, so it really doesn't matter. This isn't too bad yet. I haven't encountered anything the board hasn't prepared me for, so that's a plus. However, I suspect the cost of this thing are going to spiral out of control...just because I haven't set a budget. My goal is $5000 excluding the motor. With the motor, hydraulic steering, set back bracket, new used trailer, and controls...I'm hoping to stay under $20,000. Don't tell my wife. We'll see. Also, my dead line is one year from now. It's gotta be ready for ice off in a year. We'll see.

Sam I am

I took pics and will post tomorrow. Too tired right now.

 

[hotdaddy27]

Is that $20K including paint?

If you are having the boat painted (which I think you mentioned that), my guess is $25K with a used 300XS.

I hope you come in less!

HD