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- Thread starter Big Red
- Start date
I think I’ll come out of my posting hiatus for this one.
I think you guys are touching on some good points. This is the Checkmate fanatic’s site. Most of the people commenting on this thread are Checkmate lovers and not some person who owns a different brand of boat and hates them. It’s sad to see people with a common love at each other throats. Example, no one has one of those decals in the rear window of the kid peeing on a Checkmate…..At least not yet.
Here are my thoughts; as a business owner, you of course want to make money. Part of making money, if you own a manufacturing facility like Checkmate, is trying to keep the manufacturing process flowing at peak levels. i.e. Building boats and lots of them. If you’re not building as many boats as you are capable of, you start thinking of ideas that will generate sales, and increase revenues and profits. One option is to introduce a new model that appeals to buyers. Most often that is done by designing and producing a new plug and creating a brand new set of molds. This is usually very expensive and time consuming. I’d be surprised if you could create a new design for any size of boat for less than $100,000.
So let’s say you are Mr. Smith and business kind of sucks, largely due to the economy, and laying out some big capital just isn’t an option. So someone comes along and offers you a set of molds from a boat with a proven design to be a decent runner, although it suffered from build quality issues with the old manufacturer. You are offered these molds at a fraction of what it would cost to design a new model. What do you do? DING DING!! What are the risks? Minimal investment and they don’t sell well. Oh well, better than a big cash layout and they don’t sell well. You jump on it. I don’t think anyone would criticize a risk like that.
However it is at this point where the “controversy” begins.
For one, the owner posted on here that he did not have any of the Baja molds. At the time he posted it, he may not have been lying, but at some point that changed. He never updated his post even after the boat was released. See post #13 of the thread below.
http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?p=442539#post442539
Two, his press release creates the illusion that he and his “design team” have in fact created a new hull and deck. BLA BLA BLA. (Press release in italics at bottom of post) When in fact these are 2 sets of Baja molds and this fact is cleverly neglected to be disclosed. Why would he not take the angle of ..“Hey we’ve acquired a couple of winning Baja molds that will be offered with the craftsman like build quality that has always been synonymous with Checkmate. These boats will feature updated graphics laid in the gel coat inn traditional Checkmate fashion and updated interior styling. These boats are sure to be a winner on our dealer’s sales floor and turn heads out on the water.” It’s honest and yet shows a bit of what truly would set this boat apart from its predecessor and make people want to own it.
So having discovered the truth is like someone telling you the Easter bunny is a fake. You feel like your trust has been betrayed, or you were taken for a fool. You think to yourself “Does he not think I would have figured it out eventually?” Ethics…Morals…Honesty in advertising….I want to know what I am buying. I want to trust people.
Guys if you don’t think Checkmate is facing tough times think again. Since Bill Combs sold the place what has been built…120 boats? A good portion of those boats are sitting in dealer stock. Don’t believe me? Check e-Bay, check Trader-on-line, check various dealer’s stock in their on-line showroom. It’s a tough market. As well, when you get rid of your old dealers and sign up new ones and tell them they have to stock the product, its easier to push a few out of the factory, as opposed to having the current dealers who are carrying over product order more.
Check out the pictures in this link. Look around the boat. It’s Checkmates final assembly area in early February. Do you see many boats…Nope. What does that tell you? Because if you aren’t going 100% out in February, you are in BIG trouble. What do you think the place will look like in May or June? You build boats in February, have at boat shows in late winter early spring and deliver in April or May.
http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13757
So in summary, I applaud Mr. Smith for trying something to generate business. BUT, I don’t like how the boats were marketed and I think he needs a refresher in ethics, and honesty in advertising. I’m sure some of you don’t trust him and feel almost betrayed. I also think he made a big mistake for short term gain which was canning longtime dealers and signing up new ones to replace them rather than sign them up “in addition to” them. I saw another boat manufacturer in Canada make the same mistake in the early 90’s. They had several small dealers and eventually dumped them to have 5 or 6 large ones. Well, guess what happens when one or two go broke? Bye-bye. I think we are in for a wild ride in this economy and therefore it will be tough for people to come up with extra $$ for toys, never mind food, shelter, and transportation.
If Doug had never posted his comments in the linked thread about not having the molds and the press release was never issued, do you think this angry, 23 page, thread would exist?
CHECKMATE Makes Waves With 2 New Revitalized Designs to be unveiled at the Miami Boat Show.
January 23, 2009, Cleveland, Ohio – CHECKMATE MARINE, INC., a well-known manufacturer of performance speedboats, announces the launch of two new innovative high-performance boats: Checkmate’s SFX 250 and Checkmate’s 244 ZT. These exciting new models are the latest in a line of new performance-inspired sport designs emerging from the workshops of Checkmate Marine, Inc. in Bucyrus, Ohio.
Checkmate’s sleek new 25’ SFX 250 projects a breakthrough design that refuses to be pigeonholed. For families and sports lovers, this boat promises to be the ideal outdoor entertainment center, providing hours of fishing, diving and water-skiing fun. For speed-demons it will be a muscular, wave-running ride capable of mid 60 mph thrills. With a high-performance hull, center console, custom wrap around bow seating, new 2010 all in-gel graphics and innovative features like LED lights in the T-Top, the SFX 250 will be the envy of the waterfront.
Checkmate is also introducing an exciting new 24’6” hi-performance sports boat – the 244 ZT. This nimble model combines the custom options and uncompromising quality that is the unmistakable hallmark of Checkmate. Along with the new 2010 all in-gel graphics, the 244 ZT incorporates a host of quality features, including McLeod sit down seats, offshore electrical gauges and the unmistakable I/O performance of a Mercruiser 496 HO capable of pushing this boat to mid-70 mph speeds.
These two new sports performance models herald a new era of superiority for Checkmate. With president/owner Doug Smith at the helm of the company’s newly developed design and R&D team, Checkmate is leveraging all it’s resources towards designing and constructing the finest quality powerboats on the water. The SFX 250 and 244 ZT are the first in a series of innovative, exciting new models in the revitalized Checkmate line and are hot on the heels of last summers groundbreaking design and introduction of Checkmates newly released Pulsare 2400 BRX
About Checkmate -- Checkmate Marine Inc. designs and builds a complete line of custom, high performance and family runabout speed boats that are renowned for premium performance and quality. Each Checkmate boat is constructed using the highest quality materials and 100% hands-on methods in Checkmate’s boatbuilding workshops located in Bucyrus, Ohio. To learn more about Checkmate performance boats, visit
http://www.checkmatepowerboats.net
Discussion thread located here.
I think you guys are touching on some good points. This is the Checkmate fanatic’s site. Most of the people commenting on this thread are Checkmate lovers and not some person who owns a different brand of boat and hates them. It’s sad to see people with a common love at each other throats. Example, no one has one of those decals in the rear window of the kid peeing on a Checkmate…..At least not yet.
Here are my thoughts; as a business owner, you of course want to make money. Part of making money, if you own a manufacturing facility like Checkmate, is trying to keep the manufacturing process flowing at peak levels. i.e. Building boats and lots of them. If you’re not building as many boats as you are capable of, you start thinking of ideas that will generate sales, and increase revenues and profits. One option is to introduce a new model that appeals to buyers. Most often that is done by designing and producing a new plug and creating a brand new set of molds. This is usually very expensive and time consuming. I’d be surprised if you could create a new design for any size of boat for less than $100,000.
So let’s say you are Mr. Smith and business kind of sucks, largely due to the economy, and laying out some big capital just isn’t an option. So someone comes along and offers you a set of molds from a boat with a proven design to be a decent runner, although it suffered from build quality issues with the old manufacturer. You are offered these molds at a fraction of what it would cost to design a new model. What do you do? DING DING!! What are the risks? Minimal investment and they don’t sell well. Oh well, better than a big cash layout and they don’t sell well. You jump on it. I don’t think anyone would criticize a risk like that.
However it is at this point where the “controversy” begins.
For one, the owner posted on here that he did not have any of the Baja molds. At the time he posted it, he may not have been lying, but at some point that changed. He never updated his post even after the boat was released. See post #13 of the thread below.
http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?p=442539#post442539
Two, his press release creates the illusion that he and his “design team” have in fact created a new hull and deck. BLA BLA BLA. (Press release in italics at bottom of post) When in fact these are 2 sets of Baja molds and this fact is cleverly neglected to be disclosed. Why would he not take the angle of ..“Hey we’ve acquired a couple of winning Baja molds that will be offered with the craftsman like build quality that has always been synonymous with Checkmate. These boats will feature updated graphics laid in the gel coat inn traditional Checkmate fashion and updated interior styling. These boats are sure to be a winner on our dealer’s sales floor and turn heads out on the water.” It’s honest and yet shows a bit of what truly would set this boat apart from its predecessor and make people want to own it.
So having discovered the truth is like someone telling you the Easter bunny is a fake. You feel like your trust has been betrayed, or you were taken for a fool. You think to yourself “Does he not think I would have figured it out eventually?” Ethics…Morals…Honesty in advertising….I want to know what I am buying. I want to trust people.
Guys if you don’t think Checkmate is facing tough times think again. Since Bill Combs sold the place what has been built…120 boats? A good portion of those boats are sitting in dealer stock. Don’t believe me? Check e-Bay, check Trader-on-line, check various dealer’s stock in their on-line showroom. It’s a tough market. As well, when you get rid of your old dealers and sign up new ones and tell them they have to stock the product, its easier to push a few out of the factory, as opposed to having the current dealers who are carrying over product order more.
Check out the pictures in this link. Look around the boat. It’s Checkmates final assembly area in early February. Do you see many boats…Nope. What does that tell you? Because if you aren’t going 100% out in February, you are in BIG trouble. What do you think the place will look like in May or June? You build boats in February, have at boat shows in late winter early spring and deliver in April or May.
http://checkmate-boats.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13757
So in summary, I applaud Mr. Smith for trying something to generate business. BUT, I don’t like how the boats were marketed and I think he needs a refresher in ethics, and honesty in advertising. I’m sure some of you don’t trust him and feel almost betrayed. I also think he made a big mistake for short term gain which was canning longtime dealers and signing up new ones to replace them rather than sign them up “in addition to” them. I saw another boat manufacturer in Canada make the same mistake in the early 90’s. They had several small dealers and eventually dumped them to have 5 or 6 large ones. Well, guess what happens when one or two go broke? Bye-bye. I think we are in for a wild ride in this economy and therefore it will be tough for people to come up with extra $$ for toys, never mind food, shelter, and transportation.
If Doug had never posted his comments in the linked thread about not having the molds and the press release was never issued, do you think this angry, 23 page, thread would exist?
CHECKMATE Makes Waves With 2 New Revitalized Designs to be unveiled at the Miami Boat Show.
January 23, 2009, Cleveland, Ohio – CHECKMATE MARINE, INC., a well-known manufacturer of performance speedboats, announces the launch of two new innovative high-performance boats: Checkmate’s SFX 250 and Checkmate’s 244 ZT. These exciting new models are the latest in a line of new performance-inspired sport designs emerging from the workshops of Checkmate Marine, Inc. in Bucyrus, Ohio.
Checkmate’s sleek new 25’ SFX 250 projects a breakthrough design that refuses to be pigeonholed. For families and sports lovers, this boat promises to be the ideal outdoor entertainment center, providing hours of fishing, diving and water-skiing fun. For speed-demons it will be a muscular, wave-running ride capable of mid 60 mph thrills. With a high-performance hull, center console, custom wrap around bow seating, new 2010 all in-gel graphics and innovative features like LED lights in the T-Top, the SFX 250 will be the envy of the waterfront.
Checkmate is also introducing an exciting new 24’6” hi-performance sports boat – the 244 ZT. This nimble model combines the custom options and uncompromising quality that is the unmistakable hallmark of Checkmate. Along with the new 2010 all in-gel graphics, the 244 ZT incorporates a host of quality features, including McLeod sit down seats, offshore electrical gauges and the unmistakable I/O performance of a Mercruiser 496 HO capable of pushing this boat to mid-70 mph speeds.
These two new sports performance models herald a new era of superiority for Checkmate. With president/owner Doug Smith at the helm of the company’s newly developed design and R&D team, Checkmate is leveraging all it’s resources towards designing and constructing the finest quality powerboats on the water. The SFX 250 and 244 ZT are the first in a series of innovative, exciting new models in the revitalized Checkmate line and are hot on the heels of last summers groundbreaking design and introduction of Checkmates newly released Pulsare 2400 BRX
About Checkmate -- Checkmate Marine Inc. designs and builds a complete line of custom, high performance and family runabout speed boats that are renowned for premium performance and quality. Each Checkmate boat is constructed using the highest quality materials and 100% hands-on methods in Checkmate’s boatbuilding workshops located in Bucyrus, Ohio. To learn more about Checkmate performance boats, visit
http://www.checkmatepowerboats.net
Discussion thread located here.
WILDMAN
Well-known member
Well then... I have bought 3 new boats in the past 5 years and 5 boats total in the past 6 years. And I am one who said I will be done with Cmate IF, IF, IF, IF, they turn into a Baja...So yes, I can and will continue to buy new boats, but one I just crossed off my list for the near future was one you have in your inventory... Thanks for saving me some money!!!!
No problem! I'm sure I would never have heard from you anyway.
hotdaddy27
Well-known member
Xsive......nice post, glad you came back from your sabbatical!
Totally agree with the moral/trust/decency issues associated with this "new and improved" Checkmate. I will be interested in seeing how the "old" employees make out in this deal.
This thread continues to get uglier and uglier.
Totally agree with the moral/trust/decency issues associated with this "new and improved" Checkmate. I will be interested in seeing how the "old" employees make out in this deal.
This thread continues to get uglier and uglier.
Big Red
Well-known member
I still don't like the H2 244 Beckmate I don't care how many people turn and feel its the right thing , Its still a played out BAJA mold that has been around for years. This piece of crap has got more publicity than any other Checkmate ever built. Whoopi its got different seats and gel graphics big deal the 2400 will smoke that H2 in looks. Its a Baja with a Checkmate sticker. Any die-hard Baja guy will just go buy the real thing off boat trader instead of a Beckmate. I will give the CC boat a bit of slack even though it looks like the 244 with a hole cut in the middle of it and the sides are 2 big and rounded for any real fisherman.
Just my worthless 02
Just my worthless 02
Mark
Well-known member
You are right, I think they will sell. But sales appeal aside, it just doesn't look like a Checkmate. That is the bigger issue for most Cmate fanatics. I understand the economy and the R&D thing. But if they had instead redesigned the deck and put a Checkmate windshield on it, I think they could have salvaged the integrity of the Checkmate branding.
Shameless
Active member
Great PR work there!! Wish I would have known this before I bought the GPS from you last week...Good job in steering away people who want to buy...
Hi Gang,
I realize there is lots of passion surrounding this topic. We need to keep in mind, that each of us approach this issue from a variety of different points of view, in part, because we are all stakeholders in this topic in different ways.
Some of us are enthusiasts, some are dealers, some are employees of Checkmate. Yes, we are all stakeholders, but we need to keep in mind we are stakeholders in very different ways.
So given that, it stands to reason we are all going to have our own individual, varying and passionate points of view on this matter.
Having said that...
Please, let's continue to debate the topic at hand, but let's not start down the road of fighting with each other.
-Chris
I realize there is lots of passion surrounding this topic. We need to keep in mind, that each of us approach this issue from a variety of different points of view, in part, because we are all stakeholders in this topic in different ways.
Some of us are enthusiasts, some are dealers, some are employees of Checkmate. Yes, we are all stakeholders, but we need to keep in mind we are stakeholders in very different ways.
So given that, it stands to reason we are all going to have our own individual, varying and passionate points of view on this matter.
Having said that...
Please, let's continue to debate the topic at hand, but let's not start down the road of fighting with each other.
-Chris
appollo1
Member
Gimme Fuel
Well-known member
AMEN TO THAT!!!! 
83PREDICTOR
Well-known member
Well, its not 85 yet but I'm am going to Beer Can Island today on a Checkmate. Cooler and bikinis.
JUPITER PULSARE
Well-known member
Gimme Fuel
Well-known member
Dang Floridians!!!!
81 enchanter
Active member
it was about 70 and i had a been on a boat at the boat show and i didn't even have to drive......